Chaos redirecting files problem

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:40 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks for the great mod..

Im having a problem with 2 files in the Chaos package not wanting
to redirect. I have also tried joining your server and it appears your
server wont redirect them either..

the two files are ChaosEsounds1.uax and ChaosEsounds4.uax.

I have re-downloaded the whole package twice from diff. locations
to make sure I didnt get corrupt download.. I have also re-compressed
each of these 2 files many times and re-uploaded those , but for
some reason the server WILL NOT send the UZ2 and redirect, it
sends the original UAX files on these 2 files.. and they are pushed
to clients extremely slow..

Like I said, your server does the same thing.. therefore, people will
have to have Chaos pre-installed in order to join my or your server,
or wait a really long time for those 2 files to be pushed, likely the
game will be over by that time, because they are decent sizes and
pushed very slowly.

Just remove those 2 files from your sounds directory and try
joining your server, you will see what I mean.. Oddly, all the
other files redirect fine, including the ChaosEsounds2.uax and
ChaosEsounds3.uax.

I have already asked one of your Chaos guys to look into this..
appreciate you guys help.. I never seen anything like this before..
and Im stumped.. Any help appreciated, I really want to get a few
Chaos maps on my server..

Thanks

tme

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:50 am

anyone?

(crickets chirping....)

jb · Post by jb » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:26 pm

Still trying to look into it. Been really busy with RL. There was an re-direction issue in the past. It related to the names of the files being case sensitive on a linux server IIRC. Wanted to dig that up again and make sure...so again just need a day or two..

So other than those two files does it work ok? Meaning if you have those two files already you can play ok?

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:21 pm

jb wrote:Still trying to look into it. Been really busy with RL. There was an re-direction issue in the past. It related to the names of the files being case sensitive on a linux server IIRC. Wanted to dig that up again and make sure...so again just need a day or two..

So other than those two files does it work ok? Meaning if you have those two files already you can play ok?

yes those 2 files wont redirect on my or YOUR server..
ChaosEsounds1.uax and ChaosEsounds4.uax

but

ChaosEsounds2.uax and ChaosEsounds3.uax redirect fine.

Ive had a few of my buddies try entering your server and they get the
same slow download speeds when it comes to those files..

Post by **R.Flagg** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:35 pm

therefore, people will have to have Chaos pre-installed in order to join my or your server

That is exactly the idea, yes.

I guess it would be nice to know what's up here, but keep in mind of course that downloading the entire mod from a game server while connecting is NOT recommended.

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:34 pm

R.Flagg wrote:
therefore, people will have to have Chaos pre-installed in order to join my or your server
That is exactly the idea, yes.

I guess it would be nice to know what's up here, but keep in mind of course that downloading the entire mod from a game server while connecting is NOT recommended.

well, perhaps your intended people to have to download the mod
entirely, install it.. but wouldnt you get more noticed if anyone could
play it? And the downloads arent that bad, really.. it takes a couple
minutes to download from the server the files required..but as you know
they wouldnt need to download them again after that..

Im not a fan of mutators, nor having to install things manually..

I miss the good ole days of UT99 where there wasnt a silly
'standard' server status.. and where you could freely add anything
to your server you wished, without worrying about getting knocked
off the standard server bullcrap list..

With the exception of those 2 files I mentioned, the Chaos mod can
and in my opinion should be made playable by anyone without
the need of manual install.. This would make Chaos more popular
in my opinion.. And maybe Map makers could start adding Chaos
compenents into their maps more often as well.

Great mod, I like it, I just wish the problem with those 2 files could
be figured out so more people could enjoy it..

tme

jb · Post by jb » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:35 am

At first the only thing I have found is that the 1 & 4 sounds are obj loaded in the Chaosgames.u The other sounds are obj loaded in the chaosut.u file. Then I found some double enteries for these and that MAY be the cause of the slow re-directs. Will have to play around with it. Hover for now it may have to be something we have to deal with as the fix probably requires new U files which have to be tied to the next PR release when ever that is..

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:50 am

jb wrote:At first the only thing I have found is that the 1 & 4 sounds are obj loaded in the Chaosgames.u The other sounds are obj loaded in the chaosut.u file. Then I found some double enteries for these and that MAY be the cause of the slow re-directs. Will have to play around with it. Hover for now it may have to be something we have to deal with as the fix probably requires new U files which have to be tied to the next PR release when ever that is..

The server doesnt push the uz2 files, it sends the original uax files.
I dont know a lot about coding/mapping but something is happening
when someone requests those 2 files that makes it send the original.

The reason for its slowness is because it isnt redirecting..you probably
already know this but any uz2 file that is missing it will not send them
fast.. so the fastness of the download isnt the problem, thats normal..
but theres something up with those 2 uax files that make a server not
want to redirect them.. Im guessing the server checks to see if the
uz2 is present , if not it pushes the original at slow speed.. but in this
case for some reason it doesnt see the uz2 OR it sees something wrong
or differant between it and the original.

Heck I dunno..

Did you notice your server isnt pushing those 2 also?

Post by **R.Flagg** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:48 pm

ticklemeelmo wrote:...but as you know they wouldnt need to download them again after that..

Just FYI - anything you download off a game server goes into your cache, and that is temporary. If they then don't play on another Chaos server for 30 days (the default setting), then yes, they will in fact have to re-download the entire mod again.

And, if they download the mod off the game server, they will not get the Chaos GUI for binding the required Chaos keys. They will be stuck doing it manually in the INI or console.

(assuming both of those still work as they did in UT2003. I haven't actually checked recently.)

So, of course you can do it that way if you wish, it's just never been the method we recommend.

I realize there are plenty of folks who don't want to "bother" with downloading and installing mods/mutators, but there's nothing I can do about that. The way I see it, is that there is lots of great free content out there, and simply having to take a moment to install it (usually a few mouse clicks) is not gonna stop me from getting hours, or potentially years, of new fun.

I miss the good ole days of UT99 where there wasnt a silly
'standard' server status.. and where you could freely add anything
to your server you wished, without worrying about getting knocked
off the standard server bullcrap list..

No argument there. I would also add that after seeing it work, IMO the new "community tab" system isn't suited well for a mod like Chaos.

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:05 am

R.Flagg wrote:
ticklemeelmo wrote:...but as you know they wouldnt need to download them again after that..
Just FYI - anything you download off a game server goes into your cache, and that is temporary. If they then don't play on another Chaos server for 30 days (the default setting), then yes, they will in fact have to re-download the entire mod again.

And, if they download the mod off the game server, they will not get the Chaos GUI for binding the required Chaos keys. They will be stuck doing it manually in the INI or console.

(assuming both of those still work as they did in UT2003. I haven't actually checked recently.)

So, of course you can do it that way if you wish, it's just never been the method we recommend.

I realize there are plenty of folks who don't want to "bother" with downloading and installing mods/mutators, but there's nothing I can do about that. The way I see it, is that there is lots of great free content out there, and simply having to take a moment to install it (usually a few mouse clicks) is not gonna stop me from getting hours, or potentially years, of new fun.

I miss the good ole days of UT99 where there wasnt a silly
'standard' server status.. and where you could freely add anything
to your server you wished, without worrying about getting knocked
off the standard server bullcrap list..
No argument there. I would also add that after seeing it work, IMO the new "community tab" system isn't suited well for a mod like Chaos.

Yeah, I understand the cache defaults to 30 days, then you will
need to download again.. but what Im saying is that map makers
should be able to incorporate Chaos content in their maps, and
they should be able to be played by anyone, with the mod pre-
installed or not.. This is actually how I came across the redirecting
problem, was a map maker made a map with the content in it, a
version of the most played VCTF map there is.. VCTF-AggressiveAlleys.
Im certain this map would be a HUGELY popular had I been able to
get those 2 files to redirect...

I would think if I made a mod, I would want to advertise it every way
possible, make it easily accessible, have it available to all, whether they
downloaded the whole package or just 1 map with the content in it..

Great mod, but unfortunately, I cannot expect everyone who frequents
my server to have Chaos installed, so I am unable to put any Chaos
maps/weapons, etc on there..

If you guys could just figure out why those 2 files refuse to redirect
I'd be a happy camper..! Even if it is in the next release, I hope it gets
fixed.

tme

Zachariah · Post by **Zachariah** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:33 am

ticklemeelmo wrote: map makers should be able to incorporate Chaos content in their maps, andthey should be able to be played by anyone, with the mod pre-installed or not.. .

This is not a wise course of action. When this is allowed , you end up with people Just using the great chaos weapons as a crutch to stand on. A Gimmick to try to get more people to download the map just for the weapons. I've seen this done a number of times. most notably the Deadcats Mappack a While ago which had something like 9 maps that were all pretty shoddy. But hell. I downloaded them on 28k cau'se they had a bunch of weapons mutators in them.

If people want to play on a map , and want to Use Chaos weapons. they should Download chaos.

Another thing is that Credit isnt always given proper. it isnt right when , even if a person has a Decent map with Chaos weapons. when they Use them without Permission , or think it's fine to use them as long as they put a note about it in the readme. it detracts from what makes chaos unique. You dont see this with other weapons mods like U4e and arkon weapons. Chaos is not an acception to the rule.When we keep Chaos together. it becomes more Unique. More Solid.

Post by **R.Flagg** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:37 am

ticklemeelmo wrote:... but what Im saying is that map makers
should be able to incorporate Chaos content in their maps, and
they should be able to be played by anyone, with the mod pre-
installed or not...

Well, let's look at that for a min....

If they were able to include various Chaos content in their maps..., then after just a few maps, you are already downloading just as much as if you downloaded the whole mod in the 1st place. Then, add a few more maps, and you are downloading much more than if you had simply installed the mod in the 1st place.

Not to mention the fact, that you would be re-downloading the same stuff over and over again, as it would be included in each of the maps.

Then you get into the whole area of folks who thought they were just downloading a new map, and weren't interested in any new weapon mods.

The system works fairly well in that respect. I can see when using the server browser if the server is runnig a custom map or not, and it's my choice at that point to join and download it or not. The same thing is true for most mods/muts.., I can see you are running it, and it's up to me to join or not.

But when you go and start "hiding" weapon mods inside of a map, then you are removing the ease of which I can choose what to play, or not to play.

Great mod, but unfortunately, I cannot expect everyone who frequents my server to have Chaos installed, so I am unable to put any Chaos maps/weapons, etc on there..

This is just the nature of the beast I'm afraid. It's your call to put mods on your server or not.

And, as we like to point out from time to time, there are so many folks who post about why nobody plays, that if those folks just stopped asking, and started playing, your server would be more than full.

jb · Post by jb » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:39 am

I still want to know why 2 files will not re-direct.

Post by **R.Flagg** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:40 am

Sure.

And that's why I recommended he post here instead of Atari. I was hoping our server admin would set this straight.

ticklemeelmo · Post by **ticklemeelmo** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:39 pm

jb wrote:I still want to know why 2 files will not re-direct.

yeah thats strange..

if those 2 files redirected.. an admin could put the entire Chaos mod on
his server, or one single map with Chaos content..

right now, the only way anyone can play with Chaos content is to have
the mod pre installed befoe joining a server..