Standard Maps and Chaos

ccrow · Post by **ccrow** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:32 pm

I am wanting to add some of the standard maps that come with UT2K3, but the weapons are not showing up on the clients. Am I trying something that just can not be done?

TIA

CC

Post by **R.Flagg** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:40 pm

Au contraire!

Chaos working with standard maps from the CD, and pretty much all of the custom maps out there, has always been one of our top features.

It's server packages. Check this:

Server Packages:

NOTE: All server admins must perform this step first!

Go to your UT2003/System folder, and open the UT2003.ini file, and in the Engine.GameEngine section, add the following lines:
ServerPackages=MultiPickup
ServerPackages=ChaosGames_UI
ServerPackages=ChaosGames
ServerPackages=ChaosUT

Making sure there are no empty spaces at the end of each line.

This will enable clients on your server to see the Chaos 'stuff'.

Quoted from the <a href="http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~chaotic/in ... er_ut2.php" target="_blank">server page</a> of the online manual.

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:52 pm

what flagg said.

Hope you are fragging in no time =)

ccrow · Post by **ccrow** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:55 pm

Thanks for the quick responce ... guess I should have just RTFM

... Just wanting to play so bad I couldn't stand it

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:55 pm

Unlike most mods that i find we have a really good manual. Thanks be to R.Flagg etc

cvydas · Post by **cvydas** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:19 pm

i just got Chaosut2 last night and i must say, this is kick ass stuff! one thing though, the pyramids map is the only one that seems to have bot support. whats the point in making a map pack then? for me i have the bots on godlike w/out translocator. the KOTH-SwampTemple map seems to be the worst on this issue, they just all gather in one big huddle. while the other maps KOTH-MistyValley and KOTH-Dungeon the bots wonder around not minding the enemy and are on their own agenda. as far as i can tell KOTH-Pyramid is the only one that works, with 16 bots running around it turns into a real hardcore map

. can someone please give me some answer about the bot paths on the map pack?

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:32 pm

Two points: in KOTH bots prefer going to the hill to shooting you. Also in Swamptemple and Mistyvalley getting to the hill usually requires the grapple and bots arent very good with it. With pyramid its very easy for them to get to it.

Second: Chaos is for all gametypes, and not sure if you meant this but it sounds like you have only tried it a bunch in KOTH. try ChaosDM1 for botpaths. Loq spent a lot of time getting them to exploit the secrets of the level, and godlike should help with that.

cvydas · Post by **cvydas** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:52 pm

Jeditobe1 yeah, i tried that , its a good map. but my gripe is more with the gametype then or is it?. in capture the flag the point is the team with the most captures wins, does that mean you and the bots only kill the guy with the flag ? no. of corse not. it seems lame to me that the bots literally ignore you unless you are on the hill. i would like to see the bot behavior improved. like i said in KOTH pyramid they really go after you whether you are on the hill or not. In KOTH-SwampTemple, KOTH-MistyValley and KOTH-Dungeon they do not. what up? will you guys revise these maps or the game type which ever it is...so that chaosut2 is more bot friendly? ---ps what made you guys decide not to rewrite the bot code so that the bots would know how to use the grapple apropriately? is this beyond the capabilty of the chaos team?or was it not a priority?or is this even possible?

cvydas · Post by **cvydas** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:57 pm

because of these concerns i am skiddish about downloading anymore KOTH maps.

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:06 pm

The reason for not going in and rewriting the bots is based on retaining compatability as far as ive heard.

jb · Post by jb » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:23 pm

cvydas wrote:Jeditobe1 yeah, i tried that , its a good map. but my gripe is more with the gametype then or is it?. in capture the flag the point is the team with the most captures wins, does that mean you and the bots only kill the guy with the flag ? no. of corse not. it seems lame to me that the bots literally ignore you unless you are on the hill. i would like to see the bot behavior improved. like i said in KOTH pyramid they really go after you whether you are on the hill or not. In KOTH-SwampTemple, KOTH-MistyValley and KOTH-Dungeon they do not. what up? will you guys revise these maps or the game type which ever it is...so that chaosut2 is more bot friendly?

cvydas,

once again sorry for not seeing this sooner. The amout of feedback (mainly good and some bad) cought us off gaurd so its takes time to go through all of these threads.

But here goes. I did the KOTH pyramid map when I developed the bot code. So I watched them and tweaked them to work. I tried to document all of the info you need as a mapper to make the play Koth well. However I could have over looked something. But we can go back through those maps and see why. Then try to fix. Mayrs had PC problems and could not connect for the last two weeks so we did not do as good of a job with oui him. We will look into the other KoTH maps and fix them better.

---ps what made you guys decide not to rewrite the bot code so that the bots would know how to use the grapple apropriately? is this beyond the capabilty of the chaos team?or was it not a priority?or is this even possible?

Thats more of a trickeir issue. The heart of Chaos it a mutator. Following Epic's own guide line as a mutator you should not replace core items. Like a pawn, bot, player controller. The reason for this is Mutators are designed to work with everything. And if you replace one of those core files then there is a good chance that you will break compatibility somewhere. And as a mod we have to play nice together. In order to fix the bots I would had to change the bot code (bot.uc) and that means we would have not standard bots. If you used this with another mod/mut that also used non standard bots, like Super Bot, then you have an issue as one would over-right the other.

So for now alls I could do was piggy back on the xloc code of the standard bots to maintain compatibility out there. Its not perfecet but its a temp soultion for now...

Please feel free to share more of your thoughts!

Post by **R.Flagg** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:53 pm

I saw your request for me to chime in cvydas, but Mr. Jb is your man when it comes to questions about Chaos KOTH. And it looks like he's got it covered.

Sure, some of the maps are pathed better than others, and it's true that the bots don't fight on the way to the hill the same way humans might. Ok, so it's got a few shortcomings, I grant you that.

But on the other hand, when you understand the part Jb has explained about compatibility, and that the coders had to stay in a certain 'box' when making them play the game type, then it doesn't seem so bad. Given the constraints of the code deal, and the time frame we had to work with, it's pretty good I think.

And when talking of time involved, well sure it was a long wait...but there's more in this mod than has been discussed yet, as some of our work is less obvious. Interactions and limits and small stuff to keep the stuff playing well, as opposed to simply throwing it all together to see what happens. Stuff not seen in 10 to 30min run-throughs ---Reviewers take Note!

Chaos is much more than 7 weapon modes and some green clouds & fire. I will be interested to see which reviewers spent some time in there ...I think I'll be able to tell.

Ok, having said all that: We still want to improve the bots, in KOTH and in other game types. Both the bots themselves, and the bot pathing. And we'll work on it. In the meantime, I'm sorry the bot matches aren't what you would like, but crank them up some, and then also try to get on Furry's server and vote for KOTH sometimes, because when playing humans none of this will matter.

Enough? I been posting this post for 5 minutes, I could post for another 5 minutes if you want. I'm not proud... or tired.

(Alice's Restaurant anyone?)

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:02 am

WTB someone willing to set up a KOTH server please =)

cvydas · Post by **cvydas** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:09 am

thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, let the amount of feedback pertaining to this mod be an indication of how popular it is already.

i look forward to seeing the improvements you make to the maps, bots behavior, and the mod as a whole.

R.Flagg {MoO} wrote: try to get on Furry's server and vote for KOTH sometimes, because when playing humans none of this will matter.

well i am a on dail-up internet so playing online is not really an option for me, i know im not the only one.

Post by **R.Flagg** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:15 am

Well, I guess it depends on your dialup, and your attitude.

I am on dialup, and I still play online. Some days are worse than others, and it might cost me some frags, but I still have fun. Doesn't matter to me if I don't win every game. I get enough 'cool frags' to make it worthwhile.

I even played a few matches tonight on High Details. Hehe. Now that was a slidehow, and I got whooped, but I wanted to get a glimpse for a few minutes what it's like on the other side of the tracks.

(and it's nice too!)