seems like cheating
-
FurrySound
- Posts: 3098
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 4:37 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
-
SPA
- Chaotic Dreams Team
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 6:49 pm
- Location: Würzburg, Germany
- Contact:
Anyway... since we already had some serious problems on the ChaosDM and ChaosUT beaodr with guys who havent better things to do then just starting flame wars with non-constructive and personal attacks, Im still a bit finger-itchy when it comes to banning people.
I dont point this now on any specific board user (not yet
), but once I get a hint about people who have nothing more to post then only little funny sparks I wont hesitate to press the "ban and delete" button in the Admin menu 
...
...just want to make sure certain people look better at their words...
..ok.. back to the topic... I dont think I would call things that gimme a drawback while playing to "cheat"... thats like e.g. you call somebody a cheater who tries to play UT with his feet for a change.... at least without the proper training.
(BTW... I have heard once of a seriously handicapped guy who has no arms since birth who really played UT with his feet...and was very very good at it. So dont laugh about such things too fast )
I dont point this now on any specific board user (not yet
), but once I get a hint about people who have nothing more to post then only little funny sparks I wont hesitate to press the "ban and delete" button in the Admin menu ......just want to make sure certain people look better at their words...
..ok.. back to the topic... I dont think I would call things that gimme a drawback while playing to "cheat"... thats like e.g. you call somebody a cheater who tries to play UT with his feet for a change.... at least without the proper training.
(BTW... I have heard once of a seriously handicapped guy who has no arms since birth who really played UT with his feet...and was very very good at it. So dont laugh about such things too fast
)
well now
too right LoQ; he does seem a bit upset, doesn't he?
let's see, Flagg, your response goes something like:
you guys are mad about Q3C rather than having anything to contribute on the subject of cheating
---well, no, actually. Let's stay on topic.
it's ridiculous to think of handicapped people needing, or using, voice commands to play a game
or maybe it's just ridiculous to think of handicapped people playing at all.
---not sure I follow you here. it would be helpful if you could tell us what it is about handicapped people you find so ridiculous. since this is the only point that you touch on the topic, let's stop to explore a little.
we're talking about a speech recognition program used to input commands in a game.
speech recognition is still an emerging tech, and it's very cpu intensive, from what I've read. ie, it will lag your game, and it won't always work properly. we've testimony to this from users in this thread.
furthermore, think for a moment what using voice commands would be like. How would you tell it to strafe-jump while turning right while changing weapons while trying to aim? I really don't see how using voice commands is going to give any advantage, let alone an unfair advantage. given this, it does seem to me more like an accessibility feature than anything else, and/or perhaps a not-very-useful toy for gamers with high-end systems.
you've given the above reasoning a label: "ridiculous" but you haven't told us how you came to this conclusion.
I confess I find the idea of voice commands being a cheat pretty ridiculous, but instead of using unsupported derisive labels, I tried to demonstrate how silly your position is.
well Mayhem gave it to you reasonable & straight, as he pretty much always does, and I gave it with a New York spin. I seem to recall a time when I could do that without causing so much sputtering. After all, we've tried to discuss some of your odder views on cheating before. And we've definitely butted heads before too, lol. remember the challenge to a duel that never happenned on the old board?
personal remark--"who seems to feel the less he thinks about something, the more he knows."
lol ok, that's new york shorthand for what I might have written like this for a peer review--"when it's impossible to see the line of reasoning used to reach such an extreme and broad judgement, it's tempting to conclude that there isn't one, lacking any explanation by it's author." I see you calling names, Flagg, but I still don't see how you think a program that hinders your chance of winning can be a cheat. so it still seems like you haven't thought it through.
well except perhaps for the last part of your post
curious that you compare me to a teenage forum troll, in what looks like an attempt to shame me and imply that my post doesn't even merit a response, and then go on with this:
"Oh, and BTW... if you think it bothers me that my strong opinions posted on the forums, sometimes brings out lots of intense debate..often with folks wanting to jump in just dying to prove me wrong....
Think again.
I post something, and you just can't help jumping in? Mission accomplished then, eh? You responding is just playing along with the game I was hoping for. Only today you played very poorly. "
well gee, what are we to make of that? on the one hand, it sounds like you've achieved what must be an important goal for you, and you should be pleased. I guess. you don't sound too pleased. on the other hand, it seems that you're as unclear on the concept of trolls as you are on cheating. I hope that wasn't too strongly worded---please remember that the word seems indicates a perception of an appearance, not a statement of fact or belief, and is an invitation for clarification.
but if this last part is true, then it sure seems like you're the one trolling; and it would make sense that you won't/can't defend your position, if it was chosen only to generate debate. You've as much as said that you do this in other threads on this forum, and it's been a notable part of our exchanges in the past---hence the "as if it will make a difference," which I thought you might find tongue-in-cheek. oops, guess not.
I apologize to the rest of the forum for provoking so much bile out of Flagg. scenes like this are never pretty, and it was not my intent to cause anyone to lose their composure.
I will be careful not to use such familiarity in future posts with him. I will also try not to make such long posts, either, lol. SPA, thanks for the forbearance. real world responsibilities and pleasures limit my online time these days, so I'll not usually be capable of instant responses here; that seems to be reason for shame over in that other thread; I'll get to it soon, and hope that peace can be restored. in this I thank you all for your help so far.
---e
too right LoQ; he does seem a bit upset, doesn't he?
let's see, Flagg, your response goes something like:
you guys are mad about Q3C rather than having anything to contribute on the subject of cheating
---well, no, actually. Let's stay on topic.
it's ridiculous to think of handicapped people needing, or using, voice commands to play a game
or maybe it's just ridiculous to think of handicapped people playing at all.
---not sure I follow you here. it would be helpful if you could tell us what it is about handicapped people you find so ridiculous. since this is the only point that you touch on the topic, let's stop to explore a little.
we're talking about a speech recognition program used to input commands in a game.
speech recognition is still an emerging tech, and it's very cpu intensive, from what I've read. ie, it will lag your game, and it won't always work properly. we've testimony to this from users in this thread.
furthermore, think for a moment what using voice commands would be like. How would you tell it to strafe-jump while turning right while changing weapons while trying to aim? I really don't see how using voice commands is going to give any advantage, let alone an unfair advantage. given this, it does seem to me more like an accessibility feature than anything else, and/or perhaps a not-very-useful toy for gamers with high-end systems.
you've given the above reasoning a label: "ridiculous" but you haven't told us how you came to this conclusion.
I confess I find the idea of voice commands being a cheat pretty ridiculous, but instead of using unsupported derisive labels, I tried to demonstrate how silly your position is.
well Mayhem gave it to you reasonable & straight, as he pretty much always does, and I gave it with a New York spin. I seem to recall a time when I could do that without causing so much sputtering. After all, we've tried to discuss some of your odder views on cheating before. And we've definitely butted heads before too, lol. remember the challenge to a duel that never happenned on the old board?
personal remark--"who seems to feel the less he thinks about something, the more he knows."
lol ok, that's new york shorthand for what I might have written like this for a peer review--"when it's impossible to see the line of reasoning used to reach such an extreme and broad judgement, it's tempting to conclude that there isn't one, lacking any explanation by it's author." I see you calling names, Flagg, but I still don't see how you think a program that hinders your chance of winning can be a cheat. so it still seems like you haven't thought it through.
well except perhaps for the last part of your post
curious that you compare me to a teenage forum troll, in what looks like an attempt to shame me and imply that my post doesn't even merit a response, and then go on with this:
"Oh, and BTW... if you think it bothers me that my strong opinions posted on the forums, sometimes brings out lots of intense debate..often with folks wanting to jump in just dying to prove me wrong....
Think again.
I post something, and you just can't help jumping in? Mission accomplished then, eh? You responding is just playing along with the game I was hoping for. Only today you played very poorly. "
well gee, what are we to make of that? on the one hand, it sounds like you've achieved what must be an important goal for you, and you should be pleased. I guess. you don't sound too pleased. on the other hand, it seems that you're as unclear on the concept of trolls as you are on cheating. I hope that wasn't too strongly worded---please remember that the word seems indicates a perception of an appearance, not a statement of fact or belief, and is an invitation for clarification.
but if this last part is true, then it sure seems like you're the one trolling; and it would make sense that you won't/can't defend your position, if it was chosen only to generate debate. You've as much as said that you do this in other threads on this forum, and it's been a notable part of our exchanges in the past---hence the "as if it will make a difference," which I thought you might find tongue-in-cheek. oops, guess not.
I apologize to the rest of the forum for provoking so much bile out of Flagg. scenes like this are never pretty, and it was not my intent to cause anyone to lose their composure.
I will be careful not to use such familiarity in future posts with him. I will also try not to make such long posts, either, lol. SPA, thanks for the forbearance. real world responsibilities and pleasures limit my online time these days, so I'll not usually be capable of instant responses here; that seems to be reason for shame over in that other thread; I'll get to it soon, and hope that peace can be restored. in this I thank you all for your help so far.
---e
Haha. Yeah, sure thing eidolon.
Come in with crap, and then try and make it all 'good' by acting reasonable now. Whatever.
The very idea of bringing up a handicapped person in this discussion was reaching far and beyond what this is about.
And I have never supported all the little millions of ways folks try to find an advantage over another guy on the server. You know this. You should not be surprised by my position. If it is not in the game or the mod, available on the GUI, obvious and available to all players, then I have not supported it. Nothing new there.
Sure, I accomplished a goal, I got you to post on the forums. Is that so surprising either? That I should want to see you post here? And no, I was not happy accomplishing it either, not this time. Yes, we have butted heads in the past, but never before have I seen you resort to such lame forum tactics in a personal attack on anyone, and certainly not me. I thought you were above that. Guess not.
And you may fool some, but I can still read your 1st posts, I can still read the attitude and intent, this 2nd post did not apologize for them, or take them away. You remain as guilty as I am of poor posting. Get over yourself.
"I will be careful not to use such familiarity in future posts with him". That's just fine with me.
"so I'll not usually be capable of instant responses here; that seems to be reason for shame over in that other thread"
Avoid and deny if you must. YOU came here with an attitude towards me, and laid it out for all to see. How I responded is another story. Why is it eidolon, that in all our years around 'these parts', you never once brought your beef to me, instead of doing it like this, in such a cheap way?
You got a problem with somebody, take it to them, or shut up about it, IMO.
[Edit: which BTW is , I believe, why I responded as I did. I was shocked and surprised to see such attitude from you. I was not lying, I have spoken highly of you to all of these folks, right up until yesterday. I felt stabbed in the back. Sadly, you let me know we are not where I thought we were. And won't be again.]
Come in with crap, and then try and make it all 'good' by acting reasonable now. Whatever.
The very idea of bringing up a handicapped person in this discussion was reaching far and beyond what this is about.
And I have never supported all the little millions of ways folks try to find an advantage over another guy on the server. You know this. You should not be surprised by my position. If it is not in the game or the mod, available on the GUI, obvious and available to all players, then I have not supported it. Nothing new there.
Sure, I accomplished a goal, I got you to post on the forums. Is that so surprising either? That I should want to see you post here? And no, I was not happy accomplishing it either, not this time. Yes, we have butted heads in the past, but never before have I seen you resort to such lame forum tactics in a personal attack on anyone, and certainly not me. I thought you were above that. Guess not.
And you may fool some, but I can still read your 1st posts, I can still read the attitude and intent, this 2nd post did not apologize for them, or take them away. You remain as guilty as I am of poor posting. Get over yourself.
"I will be careful not to use such familiarity in future posts with him". That's just fine with me.
"so I'll not usually be capable of instant responses here; that seems to be reason for shame over in that other thread"
Avoid and deny if you must. YOU came here with an attitude towards me, and laid it out for all to see. How I responded is another story. Why is it eidolon, that in all our years around 'these parts', you never once brought your beef to me, instead of doing it like this, in such a cheap way?
You got a problem with somebody, take it to them, or shut up about it, IMO.
[Edit: which BTW is , I believe, why I responded as I did. I was shocked and surprised to see such attitude from you. I was not lying, I have spoken highly of you to all of these folks, right up until yesterday. I felt stabbed in the back. Sadly, you let me know we are not where I thought we were. And won't be again.]
-
Sir Tahngarth
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: Ironforge, Khaz Modan
so setting bAvoidHitches in ut2003.ini is cheating? you should consider inis- and most people when using those things arent thinking about gaining an advantage over people, they are thinking about improving performance i.e. framrate or looks. getting a better framerate or having nicer looking graphics than someone else isnt cheating. its more 'how the cookie crumbles' becuase not all computers have the same capabilities. am I cheating because i have a GF4 ti4200 and the other guy has a GF2? no, i'm not.
I slay thee in the name of Khaz Modan!
Some things never change....
Seems like Chaos has a pretty distinct life cycle. Whenever development slows....tempers flare.....development picks up......people are friendly......interesting. I remember a point where this mod was about to die altogether and then along came a guy named PYRO and got the community so stirred up the mod came back to life. Maybe we should find that guy! Just kidding....
Mayhem
-
FurrySound
- Posts: 3098
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 4:37 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
-
FurrySound
- Posts: 3098
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 4:37 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Some things never change....
Actually, to paraphrase an old stupid commercial, 'this is not your fathers Chaos'. Things have changed. And any unfortunate posts of mine should in no way be twisted into somehow reflecting on the dedication this team has to the mod. Because it's simply not true.Mayhem wrote:Whenever development slows....tempers flare.....
And to prove my point, IR12 has just been upped, and this is the edited changelog;
Version 0.70
* Increased the IR global version number - [JeT]
* Increased the grapple pull strength under water. - [JeT]
* Fixed DualLaserTripmine so it now shows explosions and effects online
- [Gasman]
* Added some interaction between Vortex and GravBelt as well as Vortex
and Epic's SpawnProtection - [Wormbo]
* Tweaked Koth Scorebaords - [Jb]
* Proxys now have a lifespan of 120 secs - [Gasman]
* Tweaked Sniper Scope view - [Jb]
* ripper blades and grenades now trigger laser mines when shot through
the laser - [Wormbo]
* Tweaked vortex visual effects (emitter starts earlier now) - [Wormbo]
* Reduced Lights for proxies (radius and brightness) - [Jb]
* Tweaked sleeping proxies so they have no lights until the jump/move
- [Jb]
* Added Team Color lights to proxies on team games - [Jb]
* Added method so that if the current owner of a proxies leaves or
switches team, the proxies find a new owner - [Jb]
* Tweaked targeting function of proxies - [Jb]
* Added Spa's new effect for ERDW Hit - [Jb]
* Added Spa's new effects for Smoke, Napalm Fire, Posion exposions
(simular to the poison cloud effect) minor on-line isssue as some
effects are not being removed properly - [Jb]
* Added Spa models for LaserMines Pickups and Projectile, as well as 3rd
person view for Claw2 - [Jb]
* Added in Spa/its23skidu pickup mesh for Sniper ammo (using it for both RPB
and standard ATM) - [Jb]
* First pass at making the Smoke and Burning player more network
compatible - [Jb]
* Resized ammo pickups for new SR ammo and Lasermines - [Gasman]
* Tweaked collison on above pickups - [Jb]
* Fixed GravTrail effect so that it shows for the full activation time of
the boots - [Gasman]
* Fixed the DSK logo not showing up off/on-line - [Jb]
* Tweaked ammo amounts as per discussions on mb - [Gasman]
* Tweaked single LaserTip Mine to use new model with proper rotation
(note duel still needs work - [Jb]
* Disabled vortex limit (defaults to 0, can still be changed from the ini)
- [Wormbo]
* Fixed rotation issue in normal ripper blade fire by using Spa's fly
animation that Wormbo has us add to the modle - [Jb]
* Changed the name of the ripper to
but left the pickups for the ammo called Ripper as too not effect any of the maps we have - [Jb]
* Added Flash, Poison and Naplam pickup classed for Grenade launcher,
so if you throw the grenade launcher it will show you visual whats
loaded (Still need to tweak the ammo stuff) - [Jb]
* Cleaned up server-side config GUI tab - [Wormbo]
* Added web admin access to Chaos UT server-side options - [Wormbo]
* Fixed alt grenade weapon pickup classes to give the
proper ammo ammounts and types. Yea - [Jb]
* Added same fixes/tweaks pickup classed to Crossbow and its
Ammo types - [Jb]
* Added in animated Smily for Talk Icon - [Jb]
* Added switch to turn off Bot gr
g [Jb] * Tweaked Bot gr
le a bit * Code complete for IR12 - [Jb]
As you can see, that list does not reflect 'development slowing'. That's an incomplete list of changes since IR11, which was approx couple weeks ago. Not to mention about a dozen or so maps that are in testing right now. There's even at least one player model nearing completion, with several skins, and so on.
(fill in the blank)I remember a point where this mod was about to die altogether and then along came a guy named ...........
All I can say is, that was then, and this is now. So while I remain the same, and sometimes post what I should have let go, this is NOT the same Chaos team some old timers might remember. The only 'cycle' long time players around here might recognize (that is actually true) is my tendency towards a too quick temper, sometimes followed by some humble grumbling of an apology.
The bottom line, the reason for this reply, is that times have changed, and any talk of 'development slowing' is no longer even remotely close to what is actually going on, and hasn't been for some time now.
These guys are busy.
-
doublemeat
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:08 am
Voice in game is hard on the brain
I may be a little late on this topic, but I tried for several months to use voice commands in-game. I had an elaborate setup with two soundcards, and used Dragon Naturally Speaking, which is bigger but seems faster and is much more accurate than Microsoft's.
It worked like a champ (esp. for weapon selection and some complex bindings--but even for more time-sensitive things). But there was only one HUGE problem:
MY BRAIN COULD NOT REMEMBER THE VOICE COMMANDS IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE.
I finally figured out what the problem is: I was pretty good (at the time...alias was "Bubbles"...anybody remember me?), and to be good meant, for me, being in a high-adrenaline state. This means most of your actions and reactions are driven by a very primitive part of your brain that controls reflex and gross fighting strategy. The language center is all but shut off, especially since there is no context to your words. E.g. it would be one thing to say "look out!" or "follow me to the crest of that hill"--but to remember a word, and actually verbalize it--when the word has no inherent connection to anything (e.g. "weapon rocket").
I could not remember the words for the life of me. Even after many months of trying. So I eventually went back to controls. The fingers always know what to do, there is no translation, language centers, or complex neural processing involved!
BTW, I used to use a really cool Logitech controller with 6 degrees of freedom--everything you need in Quake to move, strafe, aim, jump, and duck. The aiming wasn't terribly precise since the whole thing didn't have much range of motion (went more on force than movement sort of like an F-16 control stick). Anyway, it was AWESOME for Quake/Chaos. Unfortunately it's reliability was atrocious, and my first one broke in short order. I bought another, and it too broke, but by then they had quit selling them. Bummer...
It worked like a champ (esp. for weapon selection and some complex bindings--but even for more time-sensitive things). But there was only one HUGE problem:
MY BRAIN COULD NOT REMEMBER THE VOICE COMMANDS IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE.
I finally figured out what the problem is: I was pretty good (at the time...alias was "Bubbles"...anybody remember me?), and to be good meant, for me, being in a high-adrenaline state. This means most of your actions and reactions are driven by a very primitive part of your brain that controls reflex and gross fighting strategy. The language center is all but shut off, especially since there is no context to your words. E.g. it would be one thing to say "look out!" or "follow me to the crest of that hill"--but to remember a word, and actually verbalize it--when the word has no inherent connection to anything (e.g. "weapon rocket").
I could not remember the words for the life of me. Even after many months of trying. So I eventually went back to controls. The fingers always know what to do, there is no translation, language centers, or complex neural processing involved!
BTW, I used to use a really cool Logitech controller with 6 degrees of freedom--everything you need in Quake to move, strafe, aim, jump, and duck. The aiming wasn't terribly precise since the whole thing didn't have much range of motion (went more on force than movement sort of like an F-16 control stick). Anyway, it was AWESOME for Quake/Chaos. Unfortunately it's reliability was atrocious, and my first one broke in short order. I bought another, and it too broke, but by then they had quit selling them. Bummer...