Spectre's weapon explanations (Guide) VERSION 1

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General_Sun
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Spectre's weapon explanations (Guide) VERSION 1

Post by General_Sun »

Here's an uber dandy guide from our own General Spectre:
http://generalscollective.com/forums/in ... opic=613.0
Guide orientated around ChaosUT Melee weaponry.

First off, I'm writing this guide because my internet sucks at the moment of writing it. I would be playing if I could. This guide is how >I< view duel. If someone thinks something needs to be corrected, be my guest.

You all know the regular controls so I'm not even gonna bother with them except for this; If you have a mouse4 and/or 5 button, USE THEM FOR CHANGING STANCE. I do.

Some general crap first;
A headshot is NOT instagib, it will do twice the damage a regular hit would do. Sniper Rifle and Lightning Gun do thesame. 70x2=140 and 60x2=120. In ChaosUT this shows as one hit doing twice the damage. There is often a noisy sound and your opponent will bleed more than usual. Headshot only shows up if you kill the opponent with a head shot.

Some attacks in a combo can do HALF damage, this is how the staff (18 hp per hit) and claws (same) can get your opponent to 1 HP. (18+18+18+18+18+18+ ((0.5) 18 )) = 99.

ChaosUT considers a single jump to be an aerial attack, a single jump or dodge will trigger an aerial attack. A double-jump or dodgejump however gets treated as a crouch/lunge. An exception on this are the claws, which do it the other way around.

If you double-jump, your next single jump / single dodge will be treated as a double jump attack. Just double-jump to "charge" the move and then use a single dodge to trigger it. (This is why sword on heavy sometimes uses a lunge attack and sometimes that weird circle move when dodging forward)

I will use this form which contains material meant as ADVISE. If you have a different way/method/opinion, that's fine. I will also include a tier list at the end.

Weapon name:
Personal opinion:
Light Stance:
Medium Stance:
Heavy Stance:
Advised strategy / interesting moves:
(note(s))

Shall we start? Alright then =).

Weapon name: Bastard Sword
Personal opinion: A weapon for controlled calm fighting, not much suprise attacks but parrying death. Can block alot, stab and lunge have superior damage. Nearly no chance of getting a lucky shot.
Light Stance: Do not use as primary. The animations are too fast to be of any blocking use. The lunge however is nice, because it seems to avoid many animations that would block a heavy stance lunge.
Medium Stance: Has a slightly larger range than any of the other stances. Lunge penetrates nearly every attack animation. Is considered slightly overpowered because of the great parry rate against a heavy stance Bastard Sword.
Heavy Stance: The most commonly used stance with the Bastard Sword. Left attack is a great finisher, it's easy to make a single hit with it. Right attack probably has the best head shot chance in the game. Turn your screen with the sword to keep it in the enemy. The lunge is nice as well, it penetrates most attacks and less than 50 damage is rare. The stab is the famed ChaosUT counter attack.
Advised tactics / interesting moves: Start off with a lunge and try getting a right-attack headshot on your enemy. When it's HP is low try get him with a stab or a counter-left attack.
Note: Considered to be the ultimately balanced weapon, although it's not free of overpowered moves.

Weapon name: Claws
Personal opinion: Don't play unless you can operate the keyboard fast enough, a close range offensive weapon asks for speed.
Light Stance: IGNORE.
Medium Stance: IGNORE except for one thing. The double-jump/dodgejump attack of the medium claws are tested to have the highest damage potential in the game, it is however hard to properly hit someone with it, and takes time (doublejump required).
Heavy Stance: The attacks are good, but they're close ranged. (duh) Right and left are identical just the other way, they're alright but don't use them close range. Use one of them, then lunge at your enemy when you're turning your screen to the direction your main claw's aiming for. Lunge on heavy is great, it's got a good block and high damage if it hits. The backward attack is worth mentioning for it's great block rate, it's duration is however low and leaves you wide open for an attack. If you can pull it off close to an enemy, you'll either parry or hit him. It's been known to counter a STAB (omg o.o). The aerial on heavy just sucks if you can use the medium. Don't pay any attention to it, although it does look cool.
Advised strategy: Start off with a medium stance aerial (you'll be dodgejumping to your enemy anyway) then try to get him with your attacks. Many enemies circle around, so try lunging in their path. DODGE AROUND ALOT! Claws have the blockrate to allow that.
Notes: Decent chance to 1-hit, so it's considered to be overpowered. It's kinda silly since Lunge and Stab have about the same chance to 1-hit someone, with a bigger head shot percentage too.

Weapon name: Daggers
Personal opinion: .. why use these if there are claws?
Light Stance: Only has two attack animations total. Slackers CUT team :| do not use this stance.
Medium Stance: It's good, the forward attack lasts quite some time so you can rack up some damage. The backward has got a good range considering daggers are short range, the sideward attacks will rarely hit for more than one, try to avoid or use defensively.
Heavy Stance: This really isn't a good stance, for a minor attack increasement you get a weaker lunge, unusable sideward animations. The backward however is nice with it's blockrate, but with the forward/backward-only moveset heavy daggers have, get Claws instead.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Lunge alot Grin

Weapon name: Mace
Personal opinion: The best weapon for controlled killing and block rate in a crowd.
Light Stance: The only way a mace can be suprising. The lunge is good, sidewards attacks are somewhat quick but it adds to the suprise. Backward attack is only to suprise a lunging opponent, but will rarely make multiple hits.
Medium Stance: The sideward attacks are too fast unfortunatly, the lunge is thesame as light stance, just stonger, which is a good thing.
Heavy Stance: In crowds, just alternate left and right attacks and you'll just (randomly) slay people.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Hurt with sideward heavy, finish with med/light lunge. Stay on the ground because aerials aren't good with the mace.
Note: Considered to be overpowered, which it is. Damage high and the mace rarely gets parried on heavy.

Weapon name: WarHammer
Personal opinion: It was my main for a long time till people started complaining because it can take on a Bastard Sword.
Light Stance: All the attack moves are simple, and they hit at every moment of the animation. Focus on sideward attacks, do not try to backswing.
Medium Stance: The only good move of this stance is the right attack. It's long and hits a little bit behind you. Pick heavy if you like the other attacks.
Heavy Stance: The sideward attacks seem identical, but I prefer the left one since it appears to hit more. Back/forward are identical, it has backswing so if you feel like using it, do it. It suprises people and you'll probably get some "rofl"s.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Play on maps you can wack people off, the momentum of the hammer is the largest in the game. Do not play small maps, nearly every weapon owns the hammer at close range.
Note: Hammer light CANT hit crouching enemies. Don't even try :x. It's knockback is kinda random, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. This weapon is considered to be overpowered because of high blockrate and highest damage in the game. (The crappy animations are conveniently forgotten)

Weapon name: Templar
Personal opinion: .. BASTARD SWORD GODDAMMIT, BASTARD SWORD!
Light Stance: Same as sword just slightly less damage.
Medium Stance: Same as sword but with templar's higher block and parry rate. Use it to be an annoying parry monster, annoy your friends! cheesy
Heavy Stance: Forward and sidewards are different from the sword. Sidewards have less range but more blockrate due to animation nature. It's hard to hit people with. Forward just looks fun but lasts too short to be useful.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Take the bastard sword, or abuse the medium stance for uber annoyance.
Note: Templar does one damage less than sword PER hit, which means that on any stance, you need one more hit to finish your opponent off.

Weapon name: Double Axe
Personal opinion: Overpowered in crowds, overpowered in 1on1.
Light Stance: IGNORE.
Medium Stance: IGNORE.
Heavy Stance: It's attack animations cause for alot of block, it's damage causes for alot of death. The animations are fast as hell and can be spammed very easily.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Spam.
Note: Considered to be THE overpowered weapon in ChaosUT. Rarely takes more than 2 hits to kill your enemy.

Weapon name: Axe
Personal opinion: Interesting, can be an fair-powered parry machine if used properly.
Light Stance: Has a great lunge and quick suprise attack sidewards. It's forward attack is hard to hit with but strong.
Medium Stance: Has great ranged sideward attacks, loses little speed compared to light although it loses the amazing light lunge.
Heavy Stance: A bit sluggish, but long animations may be liked by some. Can do alot of damage, or it could do a single-hit.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Go heavy to hit him once, then go light to finish off. Don't be afraid to lunge alot on light.
Note: Not liked by many because of it's speed. It really isn't bad though, give it a chance.

Weapon name: Katana
Note upfront: Animations can differ, Kaboodles has different animations than me, I don't know why.
Personal opinion: An underpowered weapon, but with sex appeal ;-;
Light Stance: Low damage, mediocre sideward animations, nice lunge. It's still underpowered though and you'll lose if you use this.
Medium Stance: Has a silly aerial dance, it's sideward animations are so-so. The forward/backward look cool but are unsuable. The only reason not to ignore this stance is because of it's lunge, which is okay, though it hardly multi-hits.
Heavy Stance: The sideward attacks don't multihit and they hit for a sucky 23hp each. The lunge is nice close-range. (My lunge is a slower medium bastard sword lunge, Kab's got the medium katana lunge as a heavy lunge I think) Also the aerial is funky. See note.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Aerial heavy stance is hard to hit with but usually head shots.
Note: It's supposed to have a high head-shot percentage, but the animations are unable to use it. Excluding aerial heavy.

Weapon name: Staff
Personal opinion: Weapon based on counters and parries
Light Stance: IGNORE (base damage = 8 OMFG)
Medium Stance: The parry rate is okay against other staves, other weapons.. not so good. The aerial, which people don't really know it does something is actually quite good, it's duration is also superb. It's forward and backward attack are actually useable! Backward doesn't really hit backward but it can counter forward close range and the forward attack is for finishing off.
Heavy Stance: The Twirl Stance. Sideward attacks are great for multihits, right = close range, left + lunge = long range. Forward attack is a piece of **** although it has some backswing. Backward attack will almost never multi-hit although it's parry rate is quite big. It's lunge has a good damage potential but rarely hits more than 1-2 times. The twirl (dodge forward / singlejump) is amazing, it's easily countered by a sideward stab / sideward attack but if it hits it will always hit for alot. Good head shot chance in the twirls, too.
Advised strategy / interesting moves: Dodge forward / single jump triggers a twirl which is useful for blocking + countering, do not abuse it though for it gets really predictable.
Note: IT TWIRLS



Tier

A tier is basically a chart that tells you what weapons are good and which are bad. This is not success rate with a weapon, it's their potential. These are not opinions. Great = top tier, bad = bottom tier.

Great: Bastard Sword, Double Axe
Good: WarHammer, Staff, Claws
Normal: Axe, Templar, Daggers, Mace
Bad: Katana

Thanks to;
Dorian for hosting the Gen's server
Gen's so I have somewhere to post this
Coffee for randomly being a punchbag, RAWR XD
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lord_kungai
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Post by lord_kungai »

The Katana isn't all that bad from my experience...

1) Somersault headshots RULZ. The = style + substance
2) The light stange gets T3H S3CKX0RTZ headshots, if you aim a little.



Same with the staff... light stance needs amazing aim, but can pull off GODLIKE headshots... You need to just pretend its some sort of close range javelin, or something.



THe double axe isn't that great. It's only good if there is lots of lag. Otherwise, you can weave circles around users of the DA.



The Bastard Sword and Templar are pretty amazing, and so are the daggers and claws. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE SMALL WEAPONS!!!



Ironically, the warhammer is more exotic than the rest of the weapons... It is the only weapn which can pull of TWO hits in one shot with its backswing. If you fire and spin your character around, you can perform a heavyset ballet of death, even in miniscule maps...


Oh, yeah. IMHO, The normal axe is kinda useless. Unless you are VERY lucky.
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Bruce9950
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Post by Bruce9950 »

I never tried that double whammy with the hammer.Your right pretty cool. That will surprise some peoples. :P
Head Shot (ooooooooooooh i love that)Ha Ha Ha Ha.

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Romulus777
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Post by Romulus777 »

well, just so long as they don't read this
proxys rule cuz they r funny a proud mac user

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lord_kungai
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Post by lord_kungai »

Even if they do read it, no one will actually think that someone with a hammer will turn their back to them, hit them with a backswing and then turn around and hit them with a frontswing...
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Kaboodles
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Post by Kaboodles »

lord_kungai wrote:The Katana isn't all that bad from my experience...

1) Somersault headshots RULZ. The = style + substance
2) The light stange gets T3H S3CKX0RTZ headshots, if you aim a little.
Ugh, the somersault attacks are some of the worst in the game. They're nearly impossible to hit with against moving opponents (players, not bots)
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L'architecte
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Post by L'architecte »

and concerning the warhammer, I have noticed bots can injure while parrying forward. I know these fucky bots dont do this intentionnaly (lol)

edit : same problem with templar, and maybe bastard sword too
Last edited by L'architecte on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be excessive.
Kaboodles
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Post by Kaboodles »

Okay, question for jb or whoever might know this:

What is the base damage for the staff and claws heavy stance? Is it 9 or 18?
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Doppelganger
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Post by Doppelganger »

Good guide. I reckon Spec only says the mace is overpowered due to my usage of it! =D
Keep rockin'!
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Post by Romulus777 »

haha! that's not the only reason I'd bet. oh BTW, welcome to the CUT Forums Doppelganger.

a new posting user Celebrate (weee) (wee) (jumpy) (grab) :mrgreen: (b) (rock)

and that's just for a new user.
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Sþectre
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Post by Sþectre »

Some things;

The only weapon that can do headshots in UT2004 is the lightning gun, excluding sniper cause that's from a previous version. The lightning gun CAN do splash damage for 35, which would explain the 9 damage. Maybe it carries over?

Katana light and staff headshot will suck ass, because katana light would do 26 damage/HS and staff does 16/HS. Both are not as common as you make it seem, either.

Secondly, I seriously doubt YOU can do the backswing+frontalswing in a competitive match, people won't be as stupid as bots. Backswing hammer does, if not alot, some knockback, which would mean you'd have to perfectly turn 180° and do a lunge within the animation. This makes the backswing/frontalswing a move that's bound to stay theoretical. Unless you fight bots, or are extremely lucky. Furthermore, staff, mace, double axe and sword can do this backswing/forwardswing move you speak of, though hammer is most suitable.

Somersault headshot is indeed, a piece of ****. o/ Kab.

The double axe IS great, it'll hit you for 81 damage most of the time, has backswing and great parrying animations.

And last, Templar is not a good weapon, it will be defeated by nearly any weapon in a non-botmatch. Daggers are hardly worth of mentioning with the claws available.

If you feel like I'm wrong on something, I would like you to show my wrong in a match against a human player. Add me on Xfire, my account is Spectre2904, or shout at me at the gen's forum.

www.generalscollective.com/forums.

P.s. does anyone other than Kab and Doppel ever play online? Or just bots, cause your opinions may be accurate, but not against human players.
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Post by General_Sun »

Spec, the backswing/foreswing is more common than you may think on the Hammer. The knockback is not that significant, you only need to take a step forward.

The DX is very very inaccurate. Trying to hit most people is a game of chance. Folks with other weapons can run circles around the DX crowd.
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Kaboodles
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Post by Kaboodles »

Just because you can't do it well doesn't mean it can't be done...
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Doppelganger
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Post by Doppelganger »

Thanks Rom Triple Seven!
Sþectre wrote:Somersault headshot is indeed, a piece of ****. o/ Kab.
But it IS incredibly fancy if you can ever pull it off! I also disagree with the daggers opinion on the case that since there's claws it doesn't even need to be mentioned. The animations are different and in some cases, slower, allowing possibility for more hits with a swing where with claws it could be just a glancing blow.
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Post by General_Sun »

Kaboodles_The_Assassin wrote:Just because you can't do it well doesn't mean it can't be done...
I was talking from the perspective of the guy running around.

And as I demonstrated yesterday, the single Axe can still pwn as a defensive weapon.
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