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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:46 am 
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Getting close to my first internal release to dev team. No relic yet but got a good group of tweaks done.

I must say it's a pleasure working with this team. Never been able to work with such highly talented artists before who can create these incredible graphics, i usually ended up hacking out some asset myself by manipulating existing ut assets. If that wasn't enough we got a person to make sounds and the sounds are great. I have never felt so well equipped on a team. Chaos team is highly organized and it's a breeze to work with them. Enjoying the new ut4 editor very much. Love the blueprints and the ability to make a blueprint change in the editor and immediately play it without needing to recompile code. Yea, there are troubles, and lots of them. The editor has many audio glitches and it made it hell to perform sound attenuations, but got through that. When it's bad, it's bad, but the good stuff is really really good.

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Hell yeah man. Glad your getting along so well. I should have the vengeful spirits ready for you soon.


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:23 pm 
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no rush on dat. next sprint i'll be tackling some simpler relics. they look awsum btw :proxy:

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:58 pm 
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well, I am in hell again. When it's bad, it's really bad. Figuring out how to cook these files to release to the team is a nightmare.
I tried the 'Package' tool last night and it packages the whole dam UT game, which is not what I want.
I looked it up and apparently there is some command line tool to package a mod but it is only for engine 4.6 and currently we are on 4.5, so it looks like I may have to download 4.6 now, which isn't officially released yet.
I mean, arg, how much more difficult can they make it?
I also havn't quite figured out how to make the 'ue4-<package>.dll' file yet.
Currently it makes 'ue4-editor' files, but I need just plain 'ue4-'.
I thought switching the build config from 'Development-Editor' to 'Development' would be the logical choice, but logic doesn't seem to be a factor in these things.
When I built under that configuration, no binaries at all were generated (yes I modified my source code to force a recompile), at least not generated in the directory where I am looking for them (plugin\binaries area). Some other area I need to look in?
So yea there are a lot of issues to work through just to make a release, and I can not believe how hard this is.
Anyone who can offer me any help will be greatly appreciated.
I need a step by step on how to package a plugin mutator mod in 4.5.

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Very sorry this is happening. We will continue to try to get you some help.

Just in case you haven't ventured over there last couple days, have you seen this thread?
https://forums.unrealtournament.com/sho ... post121648

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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:18 pm 
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thanks very much for that link it helps a lot. I hadn't seen that page in particular but from the pages I had read, it pretty much verifies the direction I was going to take. The pages I had read also mentioned this 'knepleyp' branch of 4.5 which also had the tool. I don't really look forward to getting a new branch from github and dealing with who knows what issues that will cause(I worked so damn hard getting a stable system up and now this is going to disrupt all that), but merging knepleyp looks like the best bet. I am getting the feeling however this is the only way. perhaps when I get this tool running the 'ue4-' files I need will be generated. I plan on taking this approach and we will see how it goes. I will let you know.

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:36 pm 
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reading through that thread it is quite humorous. I was struggling with this last night, and little did I know the day before this other guy was having the exact same issues and made the thread. he pretty much has gone through similar steps and failures as I, asked similar questions and had same doubts as myself, lol. it's good to know I'm not the only one! I am only just getting started on this release package stuff, only just got started last night so no big deal yet. i had researched it last week but only got started trying things out last night. I really don't want to get that branch but the other guys seem to have done it okay and this is most definitely the approach I need to take. I think at this point this thread has confirmed the direction I was reluctantly going to take and I am good to go for now, so pls don't spend any more time on this, mr flagg, and thanks for finding that thread.

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:50 pm 
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managed to get a working test release going. however i still got a lot of work to do to get something good going and figure out exactly how i need to do this. unfortunately (there's that word again which i will use a lot) there are various approaches to building the mod (they really haven't gotten their act together yet) and i need to figure out what will work best for us.

that being said, i am pretty sure already that i will be giving the team their own private copy of Unreal Tournament and we no longer will usse the Alpha.
The reasons for this:
-because we won't be paying for any monthly subscription, the alpha will quickly get incompatible with our work
-it gets tricky to keep a static version of the alpha on your hard drive. i was forced to upgrade the other day because the launcher demanded that i do so or i couldn't play the game. everyone needs to keep on the exact same binaries of UT *and* the engine and that can get tricky and best way to do that is for me to control it.
-because the team needs to be on exact same version of ut and engine, we need to post up these installs somewhere and stop using links that Epic hosts, because we need to put a freeze on what we are using
-i have to use a special version of the engine to make builds. this is due to ut still being in early stages and they still are developing this stuff. this engine is not compatible with the alpha and crashes it.
-as a developer i need the freedom to grab whatever engine and ut build i need to make this work, and currently that means using the kneply branch of the engine which doesn't work with alpha, so to avoid complexity for the testers (how do they get this branch installed and etc), it's easiest if i just cut an entire ut release which has all these things inside of it and just works out of the box.

assuming i go this way, i will make a separate download for the UT runtime and only update it as needed, and then just cut chaos builds. this way the whole team is on the same thing and everything works.

i have one question: have you guys been testing yet with a server, or still just doing this locally as a standalone client?

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Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:53 am 
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Man that sounds kinda rough around the edges. Will this have much effect from the art side of things? From what I've messed with so far it seams that the .uassets carry over pretty well. Barring any huge change in the rendering pipeline that is.

Also R.Flagg seems to be working some magic with the Epic folks, I just received a year of UE4. Pretty awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:27 pm 
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Note 2 warhead we need to ask raxxy about something he called rocket build (I think - accents r fun)

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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:17 pm 
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confirmed that flagg has gotten me a year subscription too. pretty nice.

what about rocket build?
every time one builds, it builds using that option.
not sure what i am being asked to ask.

i am back to having troubles.
i can't get a release out due to massive technical issues.
see my posts on the forums.
https://forums.unrealtournament.com/sho ... te+mutator

basically i am no longer working on chaos and all my time is spent wresting with this engine.
most of my time the last two weeks has been spent wresting with this engine.

my frustration level is high...

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pIJxsIPQ7l8s-0ug_Etgg
Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:26 am 
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Hey, man don't get discouraged, what we are doing is a bit crazy making a mod for a game that isn't even close to being finished is unheard of. I think that in and of itself is the biggest hurdle we face right now. Everything we are doing is unexplored territory as of yet so maybe its best to just step back a bit let things settle down some. Take part in some of our design discussions, give your thoughts on how things could work from a programmers perspective etc. I'm sure soon they will get to a stable point where we can start really putting it all together.


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:05 pm 
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I hear ya and I think your advice is really wise. Same thing I said to flagg when I started (see my introduction thread), so no big deal if we gotta wait we gotta wait. However I am gonna keep plugging away and hopefully get something working. I've also contacted Rob for advice and hopefully he's still visiting ut forums and sees my pm.

At any rate, I think this is wise:

** Current Sprint has been canceled **

This is all Agile stuff and goobly gook to a lot of people I'm sure, but a sprint is a commitment to a small piece of work in a reasonably fast timeframe (two weeks is general industry practice), and it that becomes not doable then the sprint must be failed, and that is exactly where we are at right now, so by failing the sprint I no longer have this commitment. Commitment is based on time, and right now even if the issue would get resolved, reasonable timeframe (per my expectations) will be well exceeded and no time of completion is even known right now, so it must be canceled. Agile works and these rules have been tried and proven so this isn't really a negative thing, it's just how the process works to make our lives easier, so really it's a positive thing.

So no more dev work on the mutator itself will be done until this current issue can be resolved. In Agile, if you can't make a Deliverable, you can't work and you don't work, and that is right where we are at.
It's not just Agile though, in any framework, I wouldn't think it wise to continue development because issues like that point to instability, and working in instability is only going to generate pain(and you see my pain). Now if I can fix the issue and keep going then that's another story, but if not fixable then that's a roadblock and I wouldn't want to work in a framework that's completely busted.

I will keep trying to get this thing built and out to the team, but if this turns out to fail, then we will just have to wait for 4.6 engine to come out and try again.
I am very hopeful however that it can be solved.
Pretty sure I can solve it but the final solution is kinda ugly and I have posted my dissatisfaction to the folks at Epic.
Basically looks the the solutions is having two repositories of both the engine and the ut project: one which has the mutator and another which are clean github clones of both engine and ut which has no mutator at all. Yuck. :( Double Yuck :( :(

Once solved, I will release these tweaks, take a small break(generally I will take a break between sprints), and then start up a new sprint for just the Vampire relic.

I will let you know how it goes. Somehow...some way...there must be.....Chaos! :)

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pIJxsIPQ7l8s-0ug_Etgg
Often thought to be intimidating, "warhead" is actually an inside joke poking fun at me, referring to the earlier days of my Unreal Redeemer fetish :D


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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Hi guys. Home now, and gonna be a day or two to catch up on things at home and on forums.

But, I wanted to say to warhead - please do not let the state of UT4 discourage you in any way. IF you need to just let some time pass and let UT4 get to a better state, nobody here is going to argue with you. Because I know it's true. Everyone at the weekend I just came from was basically saying the same thing. That maybe we should chill for a bit, concentrate and art and planning, and let them fix the borked mutator support a bit before you cut your wrists. (nobody wants that).

Anyway - much more to say on various topics here and in the dev section, but give me time to catch up first.

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 Post subject: Re: warhead's dev room
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:15 am 
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Hopefully this Rocket build is just a stable and functional work-bed.
Without that, all that can be done is build resources and plan.

In that light I would like to quote the inspirational words of a great Philosopher, who without a doubt would be a fan of Chaos.

"What are we doing tonight Brain ?"
"The same thing we do every night Pinky, TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD !!!"

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