Questions concerning converting a VCTF map to Chaos

[Theseus314]

I'm in the process of converting my map, VCTF-Ophelia, to ChaosUT2, but I am running across a problem. I can't see a good way to break compatibility with regular unreal tournament. The last thing I want to happen after converting the map across is to have two versions of the level running on servers at once, added to that the fact that optimising the level for chaos will probably render it mostly unplayable in UT2004.

[TKATK]

you want to make a map not work in regular UT?
if yes,then usually people just hide the chaos logo somewhere making the map depend on the chaos textures,but as i dont know ANYTHING about mapping im not quite sure

[R.Flagg]

Thank you again Theseus314. I am a big fan. I am short on time at the moment, but I posted another note in the dev section, asking for help, in case the guys-in-the-know don't see your thread. This topic you brought up is something I've been forgetting time and again to mention, so I'm very glad you did.

I will admit though, that this last part threw me....

added to that the fact that optimising the level for chaos will probably render it mostly unplayable in UT2004.

..not sure what you meant there, but I'm not a mapper.

Anyway, I must go now. I just wanted to thank you again for what you're doing, and let you know that your post won't be ignored.

[Theseus314]

Thanks R.Flagg.

..not sure what you meant there, but I'm not a mapper.

Specifically to that I mean that I will probably have to at the very least tweak weapon layout, if the map were organised for chaos weapons then it would totally play sub-optimal with regular UT2004.

TKATK I could put in a chaos specific texture, but this isn't an ideal solution. The map would still show up in the map browser, and the texture could always be pushed to the client via a server.

[jeditobe1]

Well i have a few comments (and please keep in mind ive not researched my answers, so i could be a little behind the times):

1) putting the file in the ChaosUT2\Maps directory will prevent it from showing up in normal UT2004. However, it and files for it could still be pushed from servers into the cache. This wont cause it to show up in normal UT2004 though unless the person uses a cache converter to pull the file out of the cache.

2) There is an actor included in our packages called the ChaosMapInfo actor (think its ChaosGames.ChaosMapInfo). This gives the makers of a map for chaos some additional controls as to how his or her maps behaves with the mod. While im not 100% sure if this would break compatibility, there should be a toggle that disables weapon swapping and will force the mod to keep whatever weapon settings you have in your map (ie... shock rifles wont swap with cross bows unless you specifically add in a multipickupbase for that purpose).

[R.Flagg]

Well i have a few comments (and please keep in mind ive not researched my answers, so i could be a little behind the times):

1) putting the file in the ChaosUT2\Maps directory will prevent it from showing up in normal UT2004.

I'm afraid that's incorrect, and this is what I kept meaning to bring up (whenver I do my rare 'vanilla testing I would notice it), but kept forgetting.

2) There is an actor included in our packages called the ChaosMapInfo actor (think its ChaosGames.ChaosMapInfo). This gives the makers of a map for chaos some additional controls as to how his or her maps behaves with the mod. While im not 100% sure if this would break compatibility, there should be a toggle that disables weapon swapping and will force the mod to keep whatever weapon settings you have in your map (ie... shock rifles wont swap with cross bows unless you specifically add in a multipickupbase for that purpose).

Unfortunately, this CMI (which I still have some issues with ) does not break compatibility. I can for example, fire up Loq's Bastion in normal UT2004, and get all the Chaos weapons and stuff right where he forced them. (not sure about grav belt yet).

[jeditobe1]

It should only do that if you manually hack your UT2004.ini file and add in the Chaos lines... Which in that case you have auto-enabled the mod (well.. you have enabled the loading of the mod directory, you dont get the other benefits of the mod system like menus and whatever).

[R.Flagg]

It should only do that if you manually hack your UT2004.ini file and add in the Chaos lines...

Or...accept the default option in the UMOD.

Which in that case you have auto-enabled the mod.

Actually, I would say in that case we have made the Chaos mutator available in standard UT2004. One must use our custom shortcut, or the community tab, in order to 'activate' the mod.

Either way, the question would still apply. In one form or another. What's best way to make the map require the mod..., or perhaps, what's the best way to make the map at least require the mutator.

Hehe. Good question there Theseus314.

But as far as the other issue you mentioned Theseus, well..., I don't actually see it that way. But of course everybody has their own perferences. Naturally it's difficult to find two people to agree on weapons and "balance".

However, IMO you would not need to change your weapon layout at all, because I feel that what we have done is provided weapons that do in fact "work", in the spots that we have placed them in. So that we can play on any map (such as yours), and have it still play well. Again, "play well" is hardly something that we can measure with a ruler, or look up in a dictionary.

Anyway, just one man's opinion. I believe that if you design the weapon placement well for your map in vanilla, it will work great with our weapons added. One of the main things I run into with some maps and Chaos, would be for example "sky-hooking". Where players can use our grapple to hook open sky. Or "forced" translocators, which takes away the option of xloc-or not, like I mentioned in that other thread.

Anyway, you got us talking now.

Edit: BTW- we have been discussing if, what, and how we can add Chaos 'map-specific' features to the mod. So that folks like yourself would have neat 'toys' to put in Chaos maps that would of course require that the mod be running.

However, barring that, you could of course just change the name slightly, which is quite common, and then there would be no confusion on versions. Dunno if that's acceptable to your or not, but it should do the trick.

[Theseus314]

1) putting the file in the ChaosUT2\Maps directory will prevent it from showing up in normal UT2004. However, it and files for it could still be pushed from servers into the cache. This wont cause it to show up in normal UT2004 though unless the person uses a cache converter to pull the file out of the cache.

Putting the map within the chaos directory structure works, sure. But there's nothing to stop people downloading the map from doing otherwise.

An additional prefix for chaos only maps would be ideal, that would stop the map showing up, or running on non-chaos servers. This however would require waiting to release the map until such features are enabled.

[jeditobe1]

Well gametypes are made to specifically only take one prefix, and the result of trying to force in a second prefix can be seen in our attempts with CCTF to make it both use vctf and normal ctf maps.

As for flagg:
I say auto enable the MOD because while yes it does add the mutator, it loads EVERYTHING you tell it to in the directory, including the maps (which are not part of the mutator) and skins/models if you add those lines. I tried to clarify this earlier. This also makes it load the chaos binary files and the .u files which contain everything the map could call that could be conceivably checked.

[R.Flagg]

Yes, I know what you meant Jedi.

Just pointing out that this technical explanation doesn't give us the solution we're looking for (or..., at least the solution I'm looking for, should only speak for myself).

And of course once again just making a point of reminding you the difference between a player, and a Chaos coder (as I have an annoying habit of doing with you guys). As far as "we players" are concerned, we did not "manually hack the ini" (many of us anyway), or "auto-enabled" the mod.

[jb]

I'm in the process of converting my map, VCTF-Ophelia, to ChaosUT2, but I am running across a problem. I can't see a good way to break compatibility with regular unreal tournament. The last thing I want to happen after converting the map across is to have two versions of the level running on servers at once, added to that the fact that optimising the level for chaos will probably render it mostly unplayable in UT2004.

Theseus314,
Sorry I did not get to this last night. We have a new release coming up and I got stuck trying to get one thing fixed. I pretty much spent the whole day on it and only made it somewhat better Anyways a rename is not what your looking for correct? Meaning you want to ensure chaos is running to make the map usable? I just want to see if I understand it correctly.....

[TKATK]

he wants the map only to be selectable when you have Chaos enabled?

[Theseus314]

Chaos mapping is fun. Today I completed bug fixing and porting across the level. The chaos logo in the screenshot has a secularity layer on and looks super leet.



Next up is some kind of a duel level:

[Kaboodles]