John 'AngelHeart' Falgate

Discussions about Chaos mapping for the UT series.
Shadowstar
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Post by Shadowstar »

Heh, the Machiavellian approach...
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Post by LoQtUS »

LordHoban wrote:
Oh No!!!! Dont get me wrong, I would love to have Mr. Fallgate on Our mapping crew, but Im sure that he has been contacted by just about every mod developer out there, and the fact that he is not on a mod team at the moment tells me that he is not interested in working on a mod team. So i wont bother him, Ill just check out his maps in quiet admeration.
There are other ways of bringing aboard someone like Mr. Fallgate than right out asking him to join. Try an indirect route, find a way to become his friend. Then, somewhere down the line, ask if he'd like to contribute a map to your project. Work up from there. Just a suggestion. If you build his trust first, work up from there, he may never become an 'official' member, but unofficially might contribute some neat elements to the cause.

Anyway, not my call. Moving on.
Im sorry, I have a problem with attempting to dupe people into working on chaos. Either they want to or they dont. People who want to will work harder then some one that is really not interested and is only doing it cause their friend is asking them to. Also, Im not about being dishonest.
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Post by LordHoban »

Im sorry, I have a problem with attempting to dupe people into working on chaos. Either they want to or they dont. People who want to will work harder then some one that is really not interested and is only doing it cause their friend is asking them to. Also, Im not about being dishonest.
I knew someone would get the wrong idea.

I could hear your words long before you ever glanced at the post.

It's dishonest only if your aim is solely to 'trick' someone into joining the project, but, that was not my intention at all. Instead, if you genuinely want an actual friendship first (why not? You have at least one thing in common, might find some other things while you're at it), which would be the main intention here, there's nothing wrong with that.

Eventually, you might want to ask him to try out a map, but if he says no at that point, that's it. You might ask at a later point, as long as you aren't being a pest about it, or you might leave it at that. By this process, what was gained? At the very least, a friendship, at most? A partner working on something you both enjoy together.

I fail to see dishonesty here. It is all about intent, and as long as the overriding intent is genuine, and not solely for the purpose of bringing someone in, there is absolutly nothing wrong with this approach. Sometimes that's what it takes to get certain people interested in a project. It may very well take a friendship to get someone like this Angelheart guy involved and excited about a project like this.

Besides, if he turns out to be a total a-hole, then you obviously wouldn't bother proceeding at that point.

It's like me wanting to adapt a novel of someone I admire greatly (I'm a writer/screenwriter, personally). Attempt to contact and attempt to build a friendship, in hopes that one day it might be possible to work with that person. No deception if you really appreciate their work and you mention that aspect up front. Just make sure it is about respect and appreciation, about honestly wanting to get to know that person and what it takes for them to 'create'.

Anyway, take it as you will.
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Post by Zachariah »

first off , I really hope he doesnt browse these forums , secondly , it is dishonest because hte friendship was founded on the inevitable assumtion that you could lure him into the team. Besides , its not like all our mappers are completely devoid of talent. just some of them ;)
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Post by LordHoban »

The primary goal should be friendship, if nothing else comes of it, that should be award enough. And wanting the chance to work with him. There's nothing dishonest about that. It would be dishonest if you lied to him to become his friend, and continued lying to him to eventually try to get him to join something. I never said lie, nor anything along those lines. I said build his trust, but not through false means.

You just have a cynical point of view, none of this was meant to be anything more than an innocent gesture. People do this all the time, they gain the friendship of someone they admire, in hopes that one day maybe they can work together. There's nothing sinister about it unless you make it so.
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Post by Zachariah »

LordHoban wrote:The primary goal should be friendship, if nothing else comes of it, that should be award enough. And wanting the chance to work with him. There's nothing dishonest about that. It would be dishonest if you lied to him to become his friend, and continued lying to him to eventually try to get him to join something. I never said lie, nor anything along those lines. I said build his trust, but not through false means.

You just have a cynical point of view, none of this was meant to be anything more than an innocent gesture. People do this all the time, they gain the friendship of someone they admire, in hopes that one day maybe they can work together. There's nothing sinister about it unless you make it so.
'

youre right I do have a cynical point of viewing it , but I understand totally what you are saying and that doesnt change what I think . . . It still seems off . ..
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Post by LordHoban »

youre right I do have a cynical point of viewing it , but I understand totally what you are saying and that doesnt change what I think . . . It still seems off . .
How is it off? As I've been saying, it's only off if the intent is off.
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Post by R.Flagg »

I understood what you meant from the 1st post LordHoban, don't worry about it man.

Can we just let that whole debate go now guys, and simply agree to enjoy some maps? :wink:
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Post by |GoD|Plaguelord|LDR| »

The Flagg wrote:Though I wouldn't go quite that far with my friend.
"Friend"? Did you just call me friend? Awe I feel so luved :roll: LMAO
LoQtUS wrote:Oh, and by the way, Beef. I think you should contact Mr.Fallgate before you upload a changed version of his map to any public site and ask permission. I have had people upload my maps to public down load sites without changing the map, and without my permission. Let me tell you, it pissed me off pretty bad cause the uploaded it under their name.
Yeah come on Beef that just isn't right... you don't change something that someone else made after they put days, weeks, or even months to make without even asking them... people get sued over that kind of crap, although I doubt you will, but do you see the point?
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Post by LoQtUS »

Besides , its not like all our mappers are completely devoid of talent. just some of them
*LoQ raises Hand*
I would be the one devoid of talent!

And if by chance Mr. Falgate doese read this thread. Keep up the great work, you give me something to aspire to ;) Ofcourse, Im green with envy ;)
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Post by LordHoban »

R.Flagg wrote:I understood what you meant from the 1st post LordHoban, don't worry about it man.

Can we just let that whole debate go now guys, and simply agree to enjoy some maps? :wink:
I think that's a great idea. I just downloaded his From Hell map, gonna check that out this morning.
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Post by TKATK »

if someone will try to dupe a person into a mod,ill show im this thread as a example
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Post by Shadowstar »

I think at this point, all of us Chaos mappers are looking at Angelheart's maps as a sort of benchmark for visual and aesthetic quality.

In fact, you can see a screenshot of my WIP Arena sequel map (Arena II)on the Argon Labs page under photos>facilities.

I am aiming to make it look as realistic and beautiful as an Angelheart map.
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Post by R.Flagg »

It's another 42megs all in one map. And as usual, it isn't designed to be played, just enjoyed.

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Post by carmatic »

hm, if there was one thing angelheart's probably good for, its... umm... single player games , perhaps... looking for the garage key was pretty good fun, as well as sneaking around in the attic-y part of the mansion... although the bathroom door is glitchy...
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