Advanced Melee System

All about Chaos for Unreal... (UT3, UT2004, UT2003, UT)
EMPGhost
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:53 am

Advanced Melee System

Post by EMPGhost »

*If you don't want to read all this there is a short(er) Summary at the bottom.

Thanks for the great mod guys!
I love ChaosUT2 but there is one problem. The Melee Combat. It's an excellent idea but not fully developed. That is why I have come up with a new system: Advanced Melee System.
Here's who it works:

1. When you attack using a melee weapon (default left click) you can make combos. Pressing fire 3 times in quick succession will initiate a quick combo (e.g slash, slash, thrust). But if you pause slightly after the first two clicks (slash, slash) and then continue attacking you'll end up with a new combo, let's say 2 angled slashes, and then finish off with a thrust. So you would have done a 5 hit combo (slash, slash, angled slash, angled slash, thrust). If you pause for longer period you will do another combo (e.g thrust, thrust, thrust, slash). In short it all depends on timing.It's possible to do double figure combos by pausing between other combos. Also it will be fast and free flowing so attacks will do less damage (e.g the simple slash, slash, thrust will do around 10 damage).
This is slightly complicated but if you've playedthe original Devil May Cry for the PS2 you'll understand.

2. Because of the speed of the attacks the blocking system is different. Everytime you press the block button your weapon will change its angle to block the opponet. For example if the opponet goes slash, slash, thrust you would block in time with his attacks. So if your opponent gets into a rhythem (slash, slash, angled slashes, 2 more slashes, thrust) then you must block to his rhythem (block 123-4-5--67-8(each dash is a pause)).

3.Futhermore when your attacking you can only move forward, and when your blocking you you can only walk L,R and Back. This way fights will look like those seen in Kill Bill: fast and furious attacking, fast and furious blocking.

4. The new system will operate as a mutator. There will only be 5 weapons: 2 light weapons (daggers, Katana), one medium (Bastard Sword) and 2 heavy (Double Bladed Axe, Mace). Each weapon has 1 stringable combo. The stance determines how fast it is preformed. In terms of animations the combos won't be prerendered. Combos are initiated with pauses. Example: If you do a quick thrust, thrust and pause after the final thrust the weapon (e.g sword) will stay outstretched and thus combos are "built" from the pauses.

5. Each weapon has an AWO. E.g when your using daggers pressing AWO will change your blocking moves to dodging moves. So when your fighting a guy with a mace you can dodge his attacks (with Kill Bill style back bending and the like) instead of having broken daggers.

6. Different weapons block better against each other. The double bladed axe and the Mace are the best at blocking each other because of thire size.

7.You can counter moves while blocking. If you press the attack button when your block clashes with the enemies attack, you can reverse and go on the offensive. If you have your sword above your head, ready to strike, and your oppenent quickly attacks, you can bring your sword down to block him. Any attack can be turned into a block. 8O

8. You can do special moves. E.g The ememy attacks you block, spin around him, and cut his head of his neck from behind his back. These moves are hard to do but amazing to watch.

9. Each weapon has a finishing strike (e.g slash, slash, thrust; slash, slash(pause), 2 angled slashes, thrust). When they come into contact with a block the weapon is knock "off-balance" (pinged). How fast it recovers is based on what stance your using and how heavy the opposing weapon is. If your using the sword and you get pinged in a light blocking stance you will recover quickly. If your in heavy stance it will take a long time to recover but you will be pinged less often. Because daggers are light they will never ping heavy weapons.

Summary
The Advanced Melee System is a mutator idea for melee Duel. It takes away some weapons leaving only 5. There are 2 light weapons, 1 medium weapon and 2 heavy weapons.

Basically, it plays more like a beat'em up. Each weapon has a combo. It starts off with basic moves. Click attack three times (this number varies from weapon to weapon) in quick succesion and (if your using a sword for example) you will do a quick but weak combo (e.g slash, slash, thrust). If you pause after the first 2 clicks and carry on you will do an entirely different combo (e.g slash, slash, angled slash, angled slash, thrust).

The complexity, power and length of the combo depends on how long you pause for and after which attacks you pause after (it is possible to pause during combos to make more).

Blocking is achieved by right clicking to the opponents attacks (your weapon automatically changes angle to block). If you go too fast, you'll miss an opponent's attack. If you go to slowly you'll be sliced to pieces.

It sort of brings strategy. When your attacking you have to vary your combos and ryhtm to hit the opponent. When blocking you have to stay with the opponent's rythm and look for places to do counter attacks.
Last edited by EMPGhost on Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Armagon
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:32 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Armagon »

Nice ideas, but it would take a lot of work to implement them.
FizzyB
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:01 pm

Post by FizzyB »

Sorry but that completely changes the game, combos are cool and all but theyd turn the game into a spam fest, the game as it stands has some real skill and i dont want to see that lost.
Other than that combos are very hard to do because they require animations to be cut off mid animation and string into a new one..
EMPGhost
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:53 am

Post by EMPGhost »

FizzyB wrote:Sorry but that completely changes the game, combos are cool and all but theyd turn the game into a spam fest, the game as it stands has some real skill and i dont want to see that lost.
Other than that combos are very hard to do because they require animations to be cut off mid animation and string into a new one..
I think that my system would not be a spam fest. It would require strategy. You'd have to adjust your rhythm to block your opponent and you'd have to vary your combos to outsmart your opponent. I do agree that it would be hard to do the animations but this should be considered as a challenge not a hinderence.
Zachariah
Chaotic Dreams Team
Posts: 2331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:25 pm
Location: Wherever Dreams Go Stale.

Post by Zachariah »

well with some quick math here , 15 combo moves per weapon would be 15X8=120. then adapting the current melee moves for use in combos would require each animation to be split up into three parts , an idle animation, then a beginning to middle animtion , then a strike to idle animation. thats 3 parts multiplied by the current 300 animations plus the 120 new ones for combos equals 420X3=1260. so yeah Fizz and Armagon are right in saying it would be alot of work. . .
Melekai
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:05 pm

Post by Melekai »

i woudlnt mind some combos in my version .. though i dont have a problem wiht things as they are. i just palyed trhough SP JK3, and loved the moves and stuff in that. they look cool and go into combos and stuff, but in the its like a blur.. in chaos you can time yoru attacks.. my friend for exampel used the knives all the time and kept bashing me to pieces.. till i changed my tactics and went with some light attacks, every time he lunged, i countered, he eventually quit cause he thougth i was boring.. but the point is, you just gotta know your opponent.. in taht way its good as it is.. but i really would not mind combos in the system at all.. or even just the animations from jk3 into chaosut2 they look sweet. the staff moves are awesome,

it would be even more strategic if the block was a lil more useful, (you could HOLD your block up for a while.. instead of only for a short time.

no idea how JK3 does their blocking how it blocks bullets and stuff, but looks sweet and makes melee against gunners possible.. but i dont think chaos will take this route.

i would still like for melee 3 diff attack buttons. light medium hard. (quick - slow) styles would be cool to swtich between, but i think they should be more for teh sword art rather than the speed selection for attacks.

(yeah i know animations)
Phantasma
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:54 am
Location: World Of Warcraft

Post by Phantasma »

I personally think people run way to fast to even need combos or even land then. I'd have to agree with Fizzy on this.
TKATK
the magical link fairy
Posts: 2184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:16 am

Post by TKATK »

Phantasma wrote:I personally think people run way to fast to even need combos or even land then. I'd have to agree with Fizzy on this.

only you run around like a headless chicken?

this poster doesnt have much respect for phantasma becouse he read his posts and they didnt speak well for him

Well,i think that combos would really make it a bit too spammy,blocking does need to be improved,revamped tho
Hedge-o-Matic
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:23 pm

Post by Hedge-o-Matic »

I think the blocking system as implemented is great. The weapon is held in a neutral position, and you have to actually physically intercept the opposing weapon. That's great! And as for not being able to hold a defensive pose, that makes defense a skill requiring timing, rather than being a default.

The combos idea I'm opposed to. If anything, I'd like to see even less structure. As anyone who's studies Fencing, Kendo, Iaido, or another weapon form can tell you, every technique is just made up of building block motions and positions strung together. The attacks as they stand are brief and simple, and combine well with movement and crouching/jumping. Combos imply another layer of organization that would make the fights far less flexible and interesting.

If anything, an optional "Free move" system could be used, where the animations are simply stances or positions, and the player would string these together to perform both the basic moves as they stand, as well as any "combos" they care to innovate. This isn't needed, though, but just my counter idea to the combos idea. Animation-wise, it'd be a simple matter of static positions and simple movements, which the game would have to "tween" in real time. But Chaos has uber-coders, who could pull this off.
Sporx
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:18 pm

Post by Sporx »

if you think combos = spam fest youve never played soul caliber 2 before.
TKATK
the magical link fairy
Posts: 2184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:16 am

Post by TKATK »

and what difference does it make,there are types of combo's

1:You must mash buttons like mad
2:you must mash buttons at the correct time

and both of thoose are
1:Keyboard's worst nightmare's
2:Very tiresome and boring

whats different there?
Phantasma
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:54 am
Location: World Of Warcraft

Post by Phantasma »

Soul Calibur 2 had combos? I only remember parrying everything my opponent did that didn't leave him/her wide open and attack when he did leave him/herself open.

yeah Ktawk, alot of players just plain run or swing while running backwards. kinda hard to combo those players.
Zachariah
Chaotic Dreams Team
Posts: 2331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:25 pm
Location: Wherever Dreams Go Stale.

Post by Zachariah »

heh. If you never used combos deliberately then you did not play enough SoulCaliber 2 Phant 8) . . .well actually I guess that just shows how many ways there were to play that game . but Chaos Melee and SoulCaliber Melee are too different things , and I for one am against Chaos + combos.
the only real thing I would change would be to make the animations more responsive and the animation speeds more variable. but those are epic problems . . .
Sporx
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:18 pm

Post by Sporx »

i dont know what rock you come from, but on this one every fighting game in existance has combos down to the first mortal combat.
TKATK
the magical link fairy
Posts: 2184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:16 am

Post by TKATK »

But this isnt a fighting game
This isnt even a melle fightin game

i dont know from what jar you came from,but this isnt a melle only mod,so i think its better if more was done with the CPP than combo's
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