Is there any way I can get the rest of the bots in Chaos?

[Hairy_Fairy]

Thank you for the new 3.75 release. I just downloaded it, so I haven't tried it yet but I'm sure it will be great like the other Chaos versions that I have played.

In an earlier version of Chaos (the one that came with the UT2004 ECE DVD)
it was possible to play with all the other characters you had installed under UT2004. But after installing the newer versions, that included the chaos bots, none of the other bots are able to join when I play Chaos from within the mod itself.
While I really enjoy the Chaos characters (sexy women and a great looking knight) as a great addition to UT2004, it gets really boring always butchering knights and hot chicks. Therefore I never play from within the mod itself. But I miss a lot of the features, like the duel match and I would be very happy if I could get all the rest of the characters to join the Chaos matches.

I have a theory that if I copy all the upl files that I have in the UT2004\System directory into the UT2004\Chaos\System directory, the bots will come back to Chaos. However, since I have customised all my installed characters heavily, both through the upl files and trough the UT2004.ini and UT2004 itself, a real huge amount of work would have to be redone.

Isn't there someway that I can get the new version of Chaos to use the rest of the bots and use the information from the UT2004.ini file about them, or some way that I can copy that into the Chaos.ini file?

It worked in the old version of Chaos, so there should probably be a way for it to work now.

If anybody can help me on this I will be very grateful for it.

I guess the reason for removing all the other characters from Chaos is that some custom characters deformed in a very funny way when duelling.
I view that as a feature, rather than a bug.

Lastly, a huge hug to the creators of this mod, both for its greatness and for not making another total conversion mod, but a rich addon that is usable with so many of the other addons that other people have made for this game.

[R.Flagg]

Thank you for the new 3.75 release.

You're welcome.

Isn't there someway that I can get the new version of Chaos to use the rest of the bots and use the information from the UT2004.ini file about them, or some way that I can copy that into the Chaos.ini file?

Yes. Simply install correctly, and they will be there.

It's a long story actually, this business about upl files and Epic's current community/mod system. But to skip to the end/point of the story, this system they have is better suited for a TC, than for an actual mod, like Chaos.

Anyway, when you install the newest version, all should be well. And for future reference, you need to have this line:

Paths=../System/*.upl

in the [Core.System] section of your ChaosUT2.ini. IIRC, it's best or even required to put it as the last line in the section.

However, any non-standard (meaning the 'bone' structure, or bone naming, some tech crap like that) player models will still not work correctly when using our melee system. And that's not a bug of course, that's just the way she works. Which BTW, is one of the main reasons I wanted melee back out of 'standard' Chaos game types. I too felt that removing all non-standard player models from my game was just too high a price to pay.

...for not making another total conversion mod, ....

Yeah. That's pretty much what attracted me to Chaos in the 1st place, way back in Quake2. My view on TC's has always been... if I wanted a realism shooter (or a racing game, or whatever), I'd have bought one. I just want more cool stuff for the game(s) I chose to buy and play. Infiltration being the lone exception, of course.

Thanks for the kind words. Lots of guys have worked on this over last couple years or whatever. Here's hoping we can find enough talent to do something Chaos-y and fun for '07.

[Hairy_Fairy]

Thank you for a quick reply!

Yes. Simply install correctly, and they will be there.

Great!

It's a long story actually, this business about upl files and Epic's current community/mod system. But to skip to the end/point of the story, this system they have is better suited for a TC, than for an actual mod, like Chaos.

Anyway, when you install the newest version, all should be well. And for future reference, you need to have this line:

Paths=../System/*.upl

in the [Core.System] section of your ChaosUT2.ini. IIRC, it's best or even required to put it as the last line in the section.

However, any non-standard (meaning the 'bone' structure, or bone naming, some tech crap like that) player models will still not work correctly when using our melee system. And that's not a bug of course, that's just the way she works. Which BTW, is one of the main reasons I wanted melee back out of 'standard' Chaos game types. I too felt that removing all non-standard player models from my game was just too high a price to pay.

I'm a bit unsure about how to install the newest version but i will probably figure it out. I downloaded the zip version and found the instructions a bit sparse. I'm supposed to remove all the existing chaos files from UT2004\System. How em I supposed to get chaos as a mutator into UT2004 now? The updated Chaos documentation still say that I should copy the ChaosUT2.ucl file into UT2004\System but no such file is in my zip. Keeping the old ChaosUT2.ucl or making a copy of the ChaosUT or ChaosGames files doesn't seem plausible.

Yeah. That's pretty much what attracted me to Chaos in the 1st place, way back in Quake2. My view on TC's has always been... if I wanted a realism shooter (or a racing game, or whatever), I'd have bought one. I just want more cool stuff for the game(s) I chose to buy and play. Infiltration being the lone exception, of course.

Thanks for the kind words. Lots of guys have worked on this over last couple years or whatever. Here's hoping we can find enough talent to do something Chaos-y and fun for '07.

AirBuccaneers is a great TC, too bad they haven't updated in a while.
But the real fun with UT2004 is of course the myriad of fun combinations one can make. Like Vehicle Assasins with the old Unwheel cars and a Paladin (which actually is quite a scary sight in that mode.) on ONS-Sun_Tzu_ECE or one of the tropic onslaught maps (with loads of snacky weapons of course).
Or CTF4 on the FaceClassic map with the Gravity Vortex launcher and the turrets, using many crazy mutators like Invasion Everywhere and Explosive Barrels

It will be interesting to see how the compability between the Junkwar mutator (which I haven't tried yet, but is really looking forward too) and your meele weapons will be. They are probably using a very different system than you but from what i read in your files about your meele system it looks like your weapons would be blocked by their shields. It will be interesting to try once i get my LAN installation right.

[R.Flagg]

I'm a bit unsure about how to install the newest version but i will probably figure it out. I downloaded the zip version and found the instructions a bit sparse.

Yes, the zip instructions in the ReadMe file are brief, but they're all that's needed for most cases. In this case however, they are in fact incorrect left-overs from 3.7, a result of the copy/paste/edit job I did to create the 3.75 readme. Sorry about that.

That's what you get for reading the readme! (didn't think anyone did that anymore).

If you already have 3.7 installed, all you have to do is point it to your main UT2004 and let 'er rip.

How em I supposed to get chaos as a mutator into UT2004 now?

The manual (your ChaosUT2/Help folder, or online) has more details than the readme. From the manual:

Using the Chaos Mutator w/o Activating Chaos Mod.

Chaos comes in both "mod" and "mutator" form. To use the ChaosUT2 mutator in normal UT2004, without activating the Chaos mod, simply open your UT2004.ini file, found in your UT2004\System folder, and add these lines in the [Core.System] section:

Paths=../ChaosUT2/System/*.u
Paths=../ChaosUT2/Maps/*.ut2
Paths=../ChaosUT2/Textures/*.utx
Paths=../ChaosUT2/Sounds/*.uax
Paths=../ChaosUT2/StaticMeshes/*.usx
Paths=../ChaosUT2/Animations/*.ukx


And there is also a Chaos icon included in the ChaosUT2\Help folder. This way, after a zip install you can still have a custom Chaos shortcut on your desktop with it's own icon.

The updated Chaos documentation still say that I should copy the ChaosUT2.ucl file into UT2004\System but no such file is in my zip.

Again, that's what you get for reading the ReadMe! That'll learn 'ya.

[jb]

Hary,

Please let us know if you still having any troubles after following Flag's dir as that should fix things for ya. Sorry for the trouble!

[Hairy_Fairy]

Thank you again for quick support!

Again, that's what you get for reading the ReadMe! That'll learn 'ya.

He he.

[Hairy_Fairy]

I installed the new version of Chaos, but there was no non-chaos bots and I lost the Chaos mutator in UT2004. I then added the "Paths=../System/*.upl" line to "[Core.System]" but that didn't work either. (I didn't have this thread before me as it is on another machine.)
I then tried to move "Paths=../System/*.upl" to the end of "[Core.System]" (away from what I realized was the entries for the Chaos files and together with the entries for the UT2004 files) and BANG it worked!
But I still was without a Chaos mutator so I figured you must have forgot a file in the zip release, and planned to go back to the earlier Chaos installation instead.
Luckily i got back to this machine and read your advise again:

If you already have 3.7 installed, all you have to do is point it to your main UT2004 and let 'er rip.

As opposed to removing all the chaos files from UT2004\System.

I undeleted the files and now everything seem to work alright. (I haven't tried it much because I want to get the LAN installation right, so that me and my brother can try out the new things together. I have some other stuff to add also.) So I guess that the old Chaos files in UT2004\System didn't ned an update for this version.

But I'm wondering if my Chaos installation is at it should be for everything to work as it should, since I had to add the upl line manually. In my ChaosUT2\System directory there are two files called default.ini and defuser.ini.

[URL]
LocalMap=ChaosNoIntro.ut2

[Core.System]
+CacheRecordPath=../ChaosUT2/System/*.ucl
+MusicPath=../ChaosUT2/Music
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/Animations/*.ukx
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/Maps/*.ut2
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/Sounds/*.uax
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/StaticMeshes/*.usx
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/System/*.u
+Paths=../ChaosUT2/Textures/*.utx
+Paths=../System/*.upl

[Engine.Engine]
Console=ChaosGames.ChaosConsole
GUIController=ChaosGames.ChaosGUI_UT2K4GUIController

[Editor.EditorEngine]
+EditPackages=ChaosGames
+EditPackages=ChaosUT

[UWeb.WebServer]
-Applications[0]=xWebAdmin.UTServerAdmin
+Applications[0]=ChaosGames.ChaosUT_UTServerAdmin

[Engine.GameEngine]
+ServerPackages=ChaosGames
+ServerPackages=ChaosUT
+MainMenuClass=ChaosGames.ChaosGUI_MainMenu
+ConnectingMenuClass=ChaosGames.ChaosGUI_UT2K4ServerLoading


[Engine.GameInfo]
-VotingHandlerType=xVoting.xVotingHandler
+VotingHandlerType=ChaosGames.ChaosUT_xVotingHandler


[Engine.GameReplicationInfo]
ServerName=A ChaosUT2 Server
ShortName=CUT2 Server

As you can see there is a +Paths=../System/*.upl under [Core.System]
Which makes me belive that everything in this file is stuff that should have been added under a previous umod installation, but wasn't.

My Chaos Installation history is:
-In the beginning there was the Unreal Tournament 2004 ECE DVD installation with Chaos included. I don't know the version number on this one but I think I read that some stuff were omitted because of space restraints.

-Then I installed (at the same time, if I remember right) Chaos 3.6 (full umod) over the old\crippled ECE version, and patched it with the 3.7 (umod) patch.

-Right now my Chaos directory is the 3.7 one, but i will reinstall the 3.75 (Zip) patch later.

My guess is that the default.ini and defuser.ini are files that is created when the umod fails to add\replace text in the main and user ini files. Is that correct? Do you have any idea why an umod update fails to update ini files?
It is most likely the update from the ECE version to 3.6 that went wrong since there shouldn't have been any configuration changes made between 3.6 and 3.7.

If I delete chaosut2User.ini and chaosut2.ini, will I get some new ini files that contain everything they are supposed to contain? I don't mind losing the old settings since I have a pretty good overview of what I want to change, which is not very much since the default configuration suits me fine. (I'm always happy when there is a lot of options though )

[jb]

Well I dont know about the others but I am confused now

Thoe files in the ChaosUT2\system are only active when your have the Chaos Mod active (ie you start it using the Chaos Short Cut or active our mod via the community menu and have the nice Chaos GUI). They have NO effect if your running normal UT2004.

Those chaosuser and chaosut2 ini files will get recrated using a copy of your UT2004.ini with our changes. Or I think thats how its suppose to work


Can you go over one more time what is the current status of your UT/Chaos?

- Do all of the bots now show up when your playing Chaos?
- Does the ChaosUT2 mut show up in Nomral UT?

Maybe if you have the bandwidth, just re-download the full PR3.7 version again? Then run our UMOD 3.75 to ensure your 100% up to date?


Sorry maybe its the fact I just got back from a long day at work and not thinking clearly but want to make sure I understand 100% what your asking...

[Hairy_Fairy]

Thoe files in the ChaosUT2\system are only active when your have the Chaos Mod active (ie you start it using the Chaos Short Cut or active our mod via the community menu and have the nice Chaos GUI). They have NO effect if your running normal UT2004.

Yes, except when you are using the Chaos mutator in normal UT2004

Those chaosuser and chaosut2 ini files will get recrated using a copy of your UT2004.ini with our changes. Or I think thats how its suppose to work

That was what i'm hoping for.

Can you go over one more time what is the current status of your UT/Chaos?

- Do all of the bots now show up when your playing Chaos?
- Does the ChaosUT2 mut show up in Normal UT?

Yes. I got both to work for 3.75. The reason for me going back to 3.7 was that I did try out a lot of stuff, and since it was late at night and I could not remember all the things I did in UT2004\System and UT2004\ChaosUT2 I went back just to be sure.

Maybe if you have the bandwidth, just re-download the full PR3.7 version again? Then run our UMOD 3.75 to ensure your 100% up to date?

That is not an option since my connection to the internet is through an old ISDN modem. (Telenor and their ****** wires be damned...) But as everything seems to work as it should, and you belive that all that is Chaos will merge with all that is UT2004.ini (not to mention User.ini) you can consider my problems solved.
I might bug you with any problems later, since I get so good support here, but when I think back I don't think I have had any problems with Chaos before, neither the UT2004 or the UT GOTY version.
And this umod problem is more of a UT2004 problem than a Chaos one.

But just for my (and other peoples) future reference: Are those default.ini and defuser.ini files that are created when an umod cannot update an ini.file (can an umod file update an ini file at all?) or do they contain that which will be merged with UT2004.ini and user.ini when there is no chaosut2.ini or chaosut2User.ini ?

Also, since I lost the bots when upgrading from the ECE DVD edition of Chaos into 1.6 and 1.7, there might be a lot of other people that have lost the UT2004 bots from their Chaos games and just think that is how it should be. You might want to mention that in an updated readme or helpfile.

Lastly I want to say that Chaos is the grand old mod that I have the biggest faith in to come out with an equal or even better version for UT2007. Here's hoping that it will be true for Jailbreak and Unreal4Ever too (even though the latter is somewhat of a competitor of yours ) May you be blessed by your black holes and gravity vortexes.

[R.Flagg]

I'll take a stab at the last 3 paragraphs/questions:

a_I think it's more like the latter, it's not the former. Pretty sure those are always there, normal part of vanilla install. Nothing to worry about, I never mess with them.

b_Pretty sure they should have showed up for you. My guess is something was awry on your end. But/Also/Anyway we plan on putting together another full version umod and zip whenever we decide it's our final version for UT2004. So in the long run it's taken care of for sure.

(as far as "That is not an option since my connection to the internet is through an old ISDN modem." ... well, not to sound uncaring, but to play mods means to download. You can't have a greased-pig catching contest w/o going thru the trouble of greasing the pigs. So, that's just something you'll have to overcome. Download managers, and all that jazz)

c_Thanks. We hope so too.

[jb]

But just for my (and other peoples) future reference: Are those default.ini and defuser.ini files that are created when an umod cannot update an ini.file (can an umod file update an ini file at all?) or do they contain that which will be merged with UT2004.ini and user.ini when there is no chaosut2.ini or chaosut2User.ini ?

Those default.ini and default user files will take the current main ini files, then add or remove parts to support the mod. For example in our chaos ones we have this:

Code: Select all

[UWeb.WebServer]
-Applications[0]=xWebAdmin.UTServerAdmin
+Applications[0]=ChaosGames.ChaosUT_UTServerAdmin

What this does is takes the modied this part of the ini file that chaos mod will use to remove the default webadmin and use a "chaotic" one in its place. These should never modify the main ut2004.ini... only the INI that the mod uses...

Does that help or make sense?