Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:48 pm
Ohhh this is the idea de besta.
If another player picks up the relic after the dude dies, no boom.
If another player picks up the relic after the dude dies, no boom.
TKATK wrote:Imo no relic should be dropped,but thats just me
Yes, I have.Shadowstar wrote:I have noticed you keep saying this, yet never provide any proof or explanation as to why you think so.
Yes, the redeemer has limitations and restrictions which make it more 'balanced'.Jb wrote:And while people may relate the Vegenace to the redeemer they are different in almost every area.
Totally misunderstanding my point. Of course dying = bad.Jb wrote:Thats not true. Dying is a big drawback in the DM gametype for example. I dont know how many DM games I have lost by one or two frags as every death is important.
I haven't heard one yet.Jb wrote:So while you have more draw backs with the redeemer you also have some with the vengence.
No. "Fair" would mean dropping it where it is. "Unfair" would be having it respawn somewhere else, perhaps even back in the guys base that you just killed, so he can bring it at you again, and again, and again....., which is what "random" would mean many times.But that could lead to abuse and or spammy-ness which is what I though we wanted to avoid? Its better to move it to a true random location and hide it for 30 to 60 seconds to give everyone a fair chance.
Which is exactly why I want to bring some balance to this relic.I have been playing games on-line since QuakeWorld. And I have had many many games ruined by the Rare Llama. If we can do something to limit them, then we should as server admins are not always around.
Sorry, I don't see that as logical at all. That's like saying a drawback to the rocket launcher is that it's not a redeemer.Well indirectly there is. If your using the Vengence, then your not using the other relics that could be helping you more.
Well of course good sir. But as I have shown the Deemer' does a whole lot more damage and its a more effective killing machine then the vengence is. Thus the deemer has to have more limits or restrictions. Not saying the Vengence does not need any or more restrictions/limits just not in the same amount.Yes, the redeemer has limitations and restrictions which make it more 'balanced'.
Errrm you just said that dying was bad and since you need to die to get it to go off...well..yea its a restriction of getting the vengence to work. Not like you can just activate it with out any cost to you (again dying = bad = cost to you). You also can not "really" pick and choose where it goes off. And there is a 2 second delay that in some cases can totaly elminate damage. So there are at least 3 restrictions/limitations when its compared to another weapon that I can think of....I haven't heard one yet.
Well according to some the damage is so over the top that the person that killed the player carrying the vengence has no chance to survive the incoming blast so he will not live to pick it up anywaysNo. "Fair" would mean dropping it where it is. "Unfair" would be having it respawn somewhere else, perhaps even back in the guys base that you just killed, so he can bring it at you again, and again, and again....., which is what "random" would mean many times.
That makes no sense at all. You're talking as if we are generating random numbers from two-digit fractals. It's not going to turn up in the same place if it spawns randomly, it WILL if it drops. Not knowing where it will appear means anyone could get it. That's the whole point of random. And for what it's worth, in most CTF games each base generally tends to be occupied by members of both teams, unless both teams are 100% defensive, which makes for a pretty crappy game. So, if the venge relic spawns in the enemy base, it may be a blessing in disguise if a member of your offense gets it.R.Flagg wrote:No. "Fair" would mean dropping it where it is. "Unfair" would be having it respawn somewhere else, perhaps even back in the guys base that you just killed, so he can bring it at you again, and again, and again....., which is what "random" would mean many times.
Well I still don't see what this whole deal is with the tk, but IMO, its less abusable if it obeys the tk rules than if it doesn't, and I always believe in going with the lesser of two evils.I have been playing games on-line since QuakeWorld. And I have had many many games ruined by the Rare Llama. If we can do something to limit them, then we should as server admins are not always around.
This is largely dependent on how we choose to spawn relics. In the current system, relics are plentiful enough that you usually have a choice between vengeance and any other relic. Given this, one could choose regeneration over vengeance and use it to great effect. If one were to choose Vengeance, then the effect would be much less useful. If we limit relic spawning by map size (as it should be), Flagg could have a valid point here.JB wrote:Well indirectly there is. If your using the Vengence, then your not using the other relics that could be helping you more.RFlagg wrote:Sorry, I don't see that as logical at all. That's like saying a drawback to the rocket launcher is that it's not a redeemer.
Well, you don't seem to 'getting' much of what I've said. So be it.Shadowstar wrote: That makes no sense at all.
Yes, yes you can. You fight and die like any other time, and yet you get this added "bonus" of a redeemer-ish exposion afterwards. You had to do nothing to make this happen. No cost or risk to you at all.Jb wrote: Not like you can just activate it with out any cost to you
I would have to say your logic is wrong: You can also grab the regen relic, and fight and die like any other time, and you get an added bonus "with no cost or risk to you at all"Yes, yes you can. You fight and die like any other time, and yet you get this added "bonus" of a redeemer-ish exposion afterwards. You had to do nothing to make this happen. No cost or risk to you at all.
Indeed. That's how you do relics.The problem with the relics mutator in UT was that there could be any number of them at any one time. Proper relics consist of only 1 per type on the battlefield at any one time so that they become resources for teams to fight over.
A fragged player drops the relic he/she is carrying and it then becomes an extra strategic decision: do you keep players holding relics all on defense to lessen the risk of losing one to the other team (and make your defense much tougher) or do you use some or all of them on offense and overwhelm their defense (but risk losing one or more).
That's how you do relics.
Ever played UT with the DE Relics? As I said they had similiar restrictions and were still powerfull. . . erm , that sounds pretty crippling to the relic system :S . .
You can still die, because it works only once and after you teleported away you have no relic anymore...And the Redemption thing, that's way over powered in Melee, and come to think of it in none melee too. It means that you can never die!
Of course. But they weren't perfect, and we should learn from them.deus.ex.machina wrote:Has never anyone played UT with the DE relics?