Some ideas for ChaosUT2...

All about Chaos for Unreal... (UT3, UT2004, UT2003, UT)
Frobozz
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Some ideas for ChaosUT2...

Post by Frobozz »

A bunch of my friends were sitting around (all avid ChaosUT fans) and started discussing ideas we'd like to see in the new ChaosUT2. Since these ideas would be worthless if not shared, I decided to post them and see what you guys think.

1. Smart Proxy Mines. Two words: "Pack Tactics". Have them hide in dark corners in rooms and jump out at once. Or, if several are chasing down a player, have one or two jump OVER his head to cut him off and surround him. Have them hide on top of door frames to jump down on unsuspecting players, etc. Also, for team games, have them colored, and able to destroy 1 for 1 a proxy of the opposite team. Have packs of proxys hop through the level as a roving pack rather than taking off in any random direction.

2. Chaos Sniper Rifle. None of us cared for the "bouncing" ammo from the first. It tended to "bounce" off walls, rails, and the floor if you were standing too close (even if your crosshairs were elsewhere). But while the lightning gus is slick, we all miss the original Sniper Rifle from UT1, and we all also miss those wicked sick railgun rounds. I'm sure with the new particle F/X in UT2K3, it's planned and will look better than ever.

The "electronic" scopes in the game stink. A nice optical scope with perhaps a digital rangefinder and magnification level indicator would be awesome for the Chaos sniper rifle. Better yet, user selectable scopes / scope crosshairs. Everything from simple Mil-Dots to fancy crosshair brackets. It should resemble a gun scope though (not a TV monitor).

3. Jump Boots. Double jump is cool; jumping like a bad anime character rules though. Sorely missed.

4. Turrets with configurable weapons. They come pre-loaded with machine guns, but you can "install" one or two weapons you're carrying to the turret. When the turret materializes, you can touch it, hit a button, and it'll "assimilate" a weapon of your choice onto it.

5. Sword. If you bring it back, must do more damage. 5 out of 5 of us agree, unless it was used in a "sword only" match, it was completely worthless. It just took too long to kill someone with it.

6. Crossbow. This was a personal favorite of mine, especially the explosive and poison quarrels. Some other ideas for quarrels though might be: Corrosive - Does normal damage, but destroys armor like none other. Incindiary - Spreads like napalm onto an area for a short period. Nice for beating a hasty retreat carrying the flag in CTF (or BR!)

7. Interface. Have EVERYTHING on a toggle switch to COMPLETELY configure the ChaosUT2 mod. For example, if I wanted to turn on everything but spawn protection, the bouncing rounds of the sniper rifle, and the sword, I should be able to select that.

8. The black hole thing. Highly desired. Only difference, put on a "throw distance" thing like the grenade launcher on the default machinegun where you hold the trigger to toss it farther. Too many times I wanted to toss it off a ledge, but had it stop on the edge of the ledge with me. Be sure to include some mega-cool particle F/X when it goes off! :)

9. Karma rules. Indirect rocket fire or weaker weapons don't kill proxys, it sends them flying, riccocheting (sp?) off walls with karma physics until they can regain control. Turrets tip and fall off ledges if told to spawn there, exploding. Turrets can be spawned on rough, uneven terrain, try to compensate for it, level itself, and if it can't, fall over. The grappling hook mechanics should be linked to the physics engine as well for realistic swinging, etc (but from the sounds of it, you're already doing that :)

10. Weapon models with ammo counters. Just a gripe many of us have with UT2K3. We liked the digital "ammo count" on the gun models themselves (like the pulse rifle and rocket launcher). Please include one on any gun models for the mod? :)

11. The HUD is pretty good as it is, especially after the patch. I don't see a need to change it.


Well, thats it. Questions, comments, flames, etc are welcome. Thanks for making one of the best UT mods ever!
jb
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Post by jb »

Wow,

excellent first post. Thanks for the thoughts. Here are some of my replies:
1. Smart Proxy Mines. Two words: "Pack Tactics". Have them hide in dark corners in rooms and jump out at once. Or, if several are chasing down a player, have one or two jump OVER his head to cut him off and surround him. Have them hide on top of door frames to jump down on unsuspecting players, etc. Also, for team games, have them colored, and able to destroy 1 for 1 a proxy of the opposite team. Have packs of proxys hop through the level as a roving pack rather than taking off in any random direction.
Well that's is pretty weird as we have already planned on doing something very similar. The problem we had with the proxies of the CUT was due mainly to network replication so our fix made them work...they just were not very flexible. We have a few new ideas to try with the UT2k3 that should remove some of these issues and allow for proxies to hunt in backs and follow pathnodess. So with out letting too many of our "cats out of the bag" I will leave you with that....

2. Chaos Sniper Rifle. None of us cared for the "bouncing" ammo from the first. It tended to "bounce" off walls, rails, and the floor if you were standing too close (even if your crosshairs were elsewhere). But while the lightning gus is slick, we all miss the original Sniper Rifle from UT1, and we all also miss those wicked sick railgun rounds. I'm sure with the new particle F/X in UT2K3, it's planned and will look better than ever. The "electronic" scopes in the game stink. A nice optical scope with perhaps a digital rangefinder and magnification level indicator would be awesome for the Chaos sniper rifle. Better yet, user selectable scopes / scope crosshairs. Everything from simple Mil-Dots to fancy crosshair brackets. It should resemble a gun scope though (not a TV monitor).
We have agreed that there is a need for the community to bring back a real sniper gun. We probably will work on one. However we already have something new that is close to being complete. Its an upgrade version of the RPB sniper. Will give it some nice PR soon as we need to tweak some things.


Don't have more time to answer the rest but once of us will try to get back to you good points.
Jb
LoQtUS
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Post by LoQtUS »

WOW, I like theese ideas. Especialy the Turret one. JB: Remind me to get with you on the Turret one, please. I had and idea almost exactly like this one that i thought would be really Slick ;)

Great Input Frobozz!!!!
Frobozz
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:23 am

The flexible turret.

Post by Frobozz »

I figure the turret could be built with it's base as a model, and then the main body complete with a pair of twin light machine guns. Then, you make a left and right "weapon pod" model for each weapon you'd like to have it assimilate. I'd think two max per turret would be enough. Toss in some red/blue skins for all the meshes and the proper code to hook it all together and you're rockin' :)

Make the whole thing a Karma actor and it'll have physics as well. Of course, if you do that, you may want to give the weapon pods zero mass so that a player adding on a new weapon doesn't suddenly tip the whole damn thing over if it's on a precarious surface.

Glad you like the ideas. If we come up with any more, I'll post them up!

-Frobozz
R.Flagg
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Re: Some ideas for ChaosUT2...

Post by R.Flagg »

Hey, I'd like a crack at this one if I may.
Frobozz wrote:A bunch of my friends were sitting around (all avid ChaosUT fans)....
Are you now! Well then a few rounds online would have been nice once in awhile, you bums. :wink: Where were you playing?
2. Chaos Sniper Rifle. None of us cared for the "bouncing" ammo from the first. It tended to "bounce" off walls, rails, and the floor if you were standing too close (even if your crosshairs were elsewhere).
Yes, there was an imperfection in the rifle, causing you to kill yourself sometimes. Was a real bummer when you had a clean shot all lined up, I know the pain. I would rather have bullets that ricochet, but I would agree that it did seem to bounce a bit far, and often.
It should resemble a gun scope though (not a TV monitor).

3. Jump Boots. Double jump is cool; jumping like a bad anime character rules though. Sorely missed.
Agree on both points.
4. Turrets with configurable weapons. They come pre-loaded with machine guns, but you can "install" one or two weapons you're carrying to the turret. When the turret materializes, you can touch it, hit a button, and it'll "assimilate" a weapon of your choice onto it.
Sounds fun. But of course, seeing as there is only to be 1, maybe 2 of these bad boys in the game, it would be great to hear many more thoughts on what to do. Thanks for yours.
5. Sword. If you bring it back, must do more damage. 5 out of 5 of us agree, unless it was used in a "sword only" match, it was completely worthless. It just took too long to kill someone with it.
Sir, I must respectfully disagree with you here. Not that it couldn't be tweaked, there's always room for improvement. But it was far from worthless. At least not after Beta4 on. Prior to that it was bugged, yes, but it got fixed. I used it all the time as a block against bullets, and it killed just fine. Most especially headshots.

There will be a new sword coming soon though. And being a whole game and all, it's all up in the air again. I hope you and I can talk about the new one after we get a beta out (better yet, maybe this time around you and you're buddies will venture onto one of our servers? :) ), and we can go from there.
7. Interface. Have EVERYTHING on a toggle switch to COMPLETELY configure the ChaosUT2 mod. For example, if I wanted to turn on everything but spawn protection, the bouncing rounds of the sniper rifle, and the sword, I should be able to select that.
Many of us like the idea, and we've talked about how to do it. Chaos for Quake2 had this level of choice, although it was done manually in the file. I do think we should have some boundaries though, on just how much we allow it to be taken apart. I'm more agreeable to selecting/removing weapons and the like than I am to actually being able to remove every single feature one by one.

But...., this too is a topic we as a team have debated back and forth. Time will tell.
8. The black hole thing. Highly desired. Only difference, put on a "throw distance"
Bingo! This is being looked at. If you didn't know, that is just how the Q2 version worked. The longer you held down the button, the farther it went. Yes, we are looking into bringing that back.

Thanks for making one of the best UT mods ever!
Very cool thing to say man, thanks. I know I had a great time helping with testing and gameplay ideas/suggestions. It's a very rewarding hobby, IMO.

Hope to see you in game this go-round!
Frobozz
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Post by Frobozz »

Are you now! Well then a few rounds online would have been nice once in awhile, you bums. Where were you playing?
Sadly, we have to haul our computers over to each other's houses and connect into a LAN. I've got two machines at my house, so when one person stops by we'd be ready to go. In the region that we live (northeastern Ohio) there is NO broadband of any kind. The phone company (Ameritech) and cable company (Adelphia) seem to be in no rush to get us connections fast enough to play a decent game over; let alone download 70meg game mods ;)

Thus, I'm stuck with a modem. I've only ever played UT over the internet once (visiting another friend in Michigan who had cable) and mostly stick to playing bots. Phone lines are so bad in our area, the max connection I ever get is 28.8 on a v.92 USRobotics hardware modem. :(

One of my friends I play with often does dare the internet once in a while, but his advantage is the phone company replaced some storm damaged equipment last year in his neighborhood. While he still can't get DSL (stuck on an analog loop), he does connect at 50.0kbps

We all got UT at about the same time. I was the first when I saw the G.O.T.Y. Edition at Best Buy for $20. Didn't get it sooner because I always believed it to be "online only". Didn't know the bots could be so enjoyable. Anyway, I saw the new edition, saw the price, re-read the box, and took a chance. Figured $20 was a small loss if it wasn't any good.

Well, I played it. I showed my friends. They all bought copies; and it's our new favorite network game. Before that we were Half-Life fanatics.

Since G.O.T.Y.Edition had Chaos UT included, none of us have really known UT without it and keep the mutator always locked on. ;)

As far as the sword goes, after reading your post, I decided to give it a "benefit of the doubt" test. I booted back up UT, set the bots from my standard "Inhuman" setting down to "Experienced" and played about 5 DM maps with the goal to get sword kills (spawn, make beeline for the sword, use it as much as possible). With a 30 kill limit, across all five maps, I got 4 kills total with the sword.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to stand by my original post. The sword is far too slow (by the time you bring it down, the bot has already dodged), far too weak (seems to take four or five hits to kill) and combining this with the penalty that it's a melee weapon and you have to be next to your opponant, I feel the Enforcers and perhaps even the air hammer are far better weapons.

Yes, parrying bullets is nice if you can pull it off in a firefight, but it only takes one good rocket or flak blast to kill. Other than that, unless I'm out of all other ammo (something that rarely happens in UT) I've never seen the point of the sword.

Any weapon added to a FPS game should cause the player to "want" to use it. From our Monday night conversation, I think the theme of the discussion was none of us ever "wanted" to use it. On the other hand, we all "wanted" to stick each other with poisoned arrows, blow each other up with explosive ones, seek out those loveable proxy mines, slam each other with the flak/proxy launching claw, knock heads off with the Chaos sniper rifle, and of course, utterly decimate (sp?) everyone else with the turrets and vortexes.

Also, ironic as it may seem, between me and my five friends who were sitting around talking, the majority of us (me and 4 others) have had formal real life blade training either through the SCA, an armored live steel fighting school, or through kung-fu. No sword that we've ever wielded moved that slow, not even my greatsword. :)

As far as melee weapons go, I have also tried the Unreal 4 Ever mod, where they have a katana, a lightsaber, and a battle axe among other things. I don't know who of my friends have also tried it, but I like those, and enjoy switching over to them because they're very fast and they kill in 1 or 2 hits, which offsets the disadvantage of being melee weapons.

Granted, those toys in that mod are perhaps a bit TOO powerful (especially with some of their secondary effects, like the lightsaber auto-parrying bullets and rockets if you're not holding down the fire button and the katana's "anime speed/jump boost" effect), but the point is I "wanted" to use them.

I'd love to talk again when the sword for CUT2 comes out.

Well, back to level design. :)

Take care!
R.Flagg
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Post by R.Flagg »

Cool.

I too live in Ohio, and am on 56k. Though I can usually get on at around 40kbps or so. Sure, it's rough alot, but the reward from playing humans is worth it.

Well, try as we might, not everyone will like every weapon, so I may not be able to sway your opinion on the sword. Perhaps if we were to meet on a server, then maybe I could then have a chance to persuade you of it's worthiness. :wink:

I agree that players should want to use the weapons, that would be nice. But I do want to use the sword. There is nothing more satisfying to me than getting that sword kill against an ememy with RL or something. And yes, it can be done, and yes, with 1 or 2 swings.

You know, I reread your posts, and I don't think you've mentioned upgrading since GOTYE. You're not still using the GOTYE version are you? 'Cause as I said, that sword was bugged. If you are, then that would explain your view, and you should get the full 1.1 version.
FurrySound
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Post by FurrySound »

Hi there,
I have to back Sir Flagg up with the sword, or is that have him back into my sword :twisted:

Anyway, I never played much with the sword till I started playing against Flagg in sword arena... We had a blast... and kills (as per Flaggs comment, latest version of Chaos UT v1.1) were one or two slices. The sound of swords clanking on a level just add a new dimension. I hope you do have time to fire up UT with Chaos v1.1 and play some Sword Arena... be sure to download the Sword Arena maps... If you find it hard to download all the files due to connection issues, etc.. let me know, I'd be happy to burn all the chaos files, maps, etc to a CD and send them to ya..

FurrySound{Moo}
Frobozz
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Post by Frobozz »

I thought the G.O.T.Y.E. was v1.0? No, I'm still running what came with hte game. I thought the only upgrade to the version I'm using was the v1.1 which came out only recently (just after UT2003). Regardless, I've been meaning to download v1.1, but it's more a matter of tying up my connection for an entire day doing so. Thank god for download managers.

Yea, I dearly miss playing on servers. When at college in michigan, I had a solid 50k modem connection all the time. My "normal" connection here is 26k, "rare" is 28k, and occasionally 36k, though it never stays connected at that speed for long.

...and I look forward to meeting you on a server ;)

Thanks for the offer FurrySound, but this lame connection is my albatros to bear for now ;) It's sad come to think of it... Athalon 2200+ on a Soyo Ultra Platinum Dragon board with half a gig of Mushkin high performance DDR RAM. GeForce4 4600, SB Audigy, over 120 gigs of storage in a RAID 0 array, all stuffed into a customized, painted full tower case with cool green neon light effects connected to an optical MS Intellimouse explorer and a 19" KDS tube... and the WHOLE rig, something that would make even Alienwares owners drool, gets a maximum of a 28k internet connection.

(looks for something to beat to take frustration out on but his computer equipment is too valuable.)

...ok, I'm better now :)

Well, off to download CUT1.1


P.S. On an unrelated note... I'm constantly getting a "No post mode specified" error message 19/20 I try to hit "Submit" or "Preview". Just for the board admin's info.
Gasman
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Post by Gasman »

It's sad come to think of it... Athalon 2200+ on a Soyo Ultra Platinum Dragon board with half a gig of Mushkin high performance DDR RAM. GeForce4 4600, SB Audigy, over 120 gigs of storage in a RAID 0 array, all stuffed into a customized, painted full tower case with cool green neon light effects connected to an optical MS Intellimouse explorer and a 19" KDS tube... and the WHOLE rig, something that would make even Alienwares owners drool, gets a maximum of a 28k internet connection.
WOW!! :lol:
Gasman
LoQtUS
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Post by LoQtUS »

That Rig sounds like the bomb!!!!
2 words: cable modem.
Wicad{MoO}
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Post by Wicad{MoO} »

Frobozz? Zork?? Hmmmm, historical.

wicad{MoO}
Frobozz
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Post by Frobozz »

Man, cable modem would be a dream, but as I said, I'm in the Sargasso of telecom infrastructure. Maybe someday Adelphia will finish their two year long upgrade and it'll happen. Till then LoQtUS, I'm hauling this steel beast over to my friend's house when I want to play more than one other human opponant.

As far as my rig goes, even I am quite impressed it can take UT2K3 at max everything @ 1280x1024. I think the programmers were to, judging by the "Holy $hit!" it makes when you turn everything on. ;) I get 128fps on the flybys and 48fps on the fights. There are two maps that REALLY bring it down though. I forget which but they're a CTF one and a BR one. I think it's because of poor map optimisation though since everything else performs smooth and clean.

Heh, yup, Zork... damn I feel old now :)
Anyone else still own a Commodore 64?
Gasman
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Post by Gasman »

Frobozz, have you considered ISDN as an alternative. I too can only get 56k dialup or ISDN 128 where I live. Verizon has no plans for 2 more years to even consider upgrading the system to DSL. Of course, ISDN in some places is not cheap. I pay 50.00/mth for the ISDN 128 line from Verizon and then another 20.00/mth for my ISP. And believe it or not, that was the cheapest ISP I could find with a local dialup number. A goo place to look for what is available in your area would be www.dslreports.com to see what services you can get. I also have unlimited access so this works out very well for me.
Gasman
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Post by Coupe=UTK= »

Wicad{MoO} wrote:Frobozz? Zork?? Hmmmm, historical.

wicad{MoO}
it's pitch black, you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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