Easier grapple??

Zachariah · Post by **Zachariah** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:41 pm

Is it just me or does grappling seem imprecise or akward /difficult to use. perhaps grapple should be controlled with one grapple fire key , and , instead of a grapple up key , perhaps grappling could be controlled with jump/crouch keys??? it seems that this method would make more sense and be more intuitive.

Ps: Bring back the Bastard sword.

FurrySound · Post by **FurrySound** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:44 pm

As for the sword, we are, it wasn't ready for this release. Don't worry

As for grapple... using the up and down (jump/crouch) would make it incompatible with some other mods possibly. We've spoken about this internally a lot. And we are still talking about it.. so keep posting the ideas.

DJPaul2 · Post by **DJPaul2** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:29 pm

Look up/down to move up/down?

Post by **Shadowstar** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:14 pm

Tieing it to look up/down would make the grapple almost impossible to use. At least with jump/duck, those aren't something you will need to be doing while you're on the grapple.

For what it's worth, I'm officially in favor of jump/duck. If we try to make our mod compatible with every mod out there, and every possible mod that could ever be created, we're going to seriously hamper the mod's potential. I just think Flagg doesn't want anyone messing with the grapple, and he's using the mod compatibility argument as a justification.

But anyway, as you can see, the team's definately in a quandry about this. It's an issue I doubt will be resolved anytime soon, so the public can rest assured that thier concerns are being discussed and we are trying hard to work towards a solution that everyone can be happy with.

thegreywolfe · Post by **thegreywolfe** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:14 pm

I don't know, I kind of like the current grapple controls. It takes a bit of getting used to, but after practicing for a while last night I've gotten a pretty good hang on it. I don't even use the second key for it. I bound the fire/swing/release key to the wheel button on my mouse and it's getting so I don't even think about it and instead of using it to climb, I use it to swing across open spaces.

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:42 pm

I agree the main power of the grapple is the variable swing length and the power to swing

Also, flagg wants to keep the grapple the way it is because that way the people playing multiple versions of chaos (it was the same as it is now in CUT and CDM) wont have to have different grapple controls.

Post by **R.Flagg** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:23 pm

I just think Flagg doesn't want anyone messing with the grapple, and he's using the mod compatibility argument as a justification.

I beg your pardon? That argument has never come from me. But I will certainly use it, as I would use anything, to get my way with the Chaos game play. Not because I am selfish, but because I want what is best for the mod, and I'll do what I can to make it happen.

But you are right in the 1st half, I don't want anybody messing with our grapple.

Also, flagg wants to keep the grapple the way it is because that way the people playing multiple versions of chaos (it was the same as it is now in CUT and CDM) wont have to have different grapple controls.

Ok, that makes sense. It is easier for those folks. But this mod must stand on it's own yes? Many players will not have ever played the other ones. I would not support something just for the smaller percentage who have been playing since Q2.

The reason I support this grapple, as do others, is because it's the best damn grapple in the business. That's why. I have played many other grapples, and some things claiming to be grapples, and none of them touch this one.

And as I mentioned in the dev forums to you Shadowstar, my argument does not apply to the 'hook up' key for sliding up and down the cable. I am talking about the main key. The main key is just as it should be, minus maybe some replication issues online. And that is an issue in about anything we do in the Unreal engine I guess.

The second key only came about in CUT. The sliding down the cable started as a bug, then was turned into a feature. I myself use the hook as movement, not as a way to hang and camp, so I don't care if you slide down the cable. Fine with me. Just let go and rehook. Big deal. Or move on and get back in the game.

So anyway, the main key operation on this hook rules. And I understand that it might not be as easy to pick up and master as others out there. But I am fine with that. Most good things take work. I am too old to have simple games. I want more involved, more 'depth'.

So long as it still 'works'. And this does. The amount of control you have over your movement with this thing is incredible. But it takes practice. Much unlike the xloc, where any new player can cross Face3 in a few seconds, almost without effort. Maybe even while eating cookies with other hand.

DJPaul2 · Post by **DJPaul2** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:59 pm

I don't have all too many spares keys in easy reach to bind to, and i'm just about managing the "grapple on/off" button, not even tried the grapple up button.

thegreywolfe · Post by **thegreywolfe** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:42 pm

Yep, I've noticed that the bots use it okay, but mostly just to get around. Personally I don't see the point of camping, most players move too fast to give you a good sniping oppurtunity.

I say keep it, maybe tweek it a bit for optimal performance, but don't change it.

jb · Post by jb » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:56 am

We can look into that. I have heard that a lot of players are running out of keys and currently UT2k3 does not handle that too well. We can look into the issue. The main key and the way the grapple works will not change but maybe we can do something about that other key...again we will look into it.

Swift Viper · Post by **Swift Viper** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:43 am

Is it possible to make the 2nd grapple key (to move up while hanging) work with the jump button or something? One key bind is ok, but lots of them can be a problem due to the other mods out there that also have keybinds and the limited number of keys. I switch bewteen the transcloator and grapple on the Q button, because it is so easy to reach. As R.Flagg said, the main key should stay, but what does everyone else think about it? I really don't know what about the 2nd key option.

jeditobe1 · Post by **jeditobe1** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:05 am

personally, i use the jump button to great effect while grappling... but i think there is a way to bind multiple commands to one key, but both will occur when you press it. Might be putting pipes (the | symbol) or something.

Knives · Post by **Knives** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:12 am

I like the grapple just fine, except for one thing. I only use the one key, for the same space reason, and after grappling one has to hit the key again to stop mid way, then again to let go.
Is it possible to have a one press release? Most of my manuvers consist of me using the grapple to hook on something above, grappling halfway or more to the object, then letting go and having my momentum carry me to my destination. The problem I have with the current hook, is that I have to stop before I can let go, hence no momentum and no destination.
It's just a personal preferance.

DJPaul2 · Post by **DJPaul2** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:19 am

Knives wrote:I like the grapple just fine, except for one thing. I only use the one key, for the same space reason, and after grappling one has to hit the key again to stop mid way, then again to let go.
Is it possible to have a one press release? Most of my manuvers consist of me using the grapple to hook on something above, grappling halfway or more to the object, then letting go and having my momentum carry me to my destination. The problem I have with the current hook, is that I have to stop before I can let go, hence no momentum and no destination.
It's just a personal preferance.

Perhaps make it so you HOLD ONE key to "grapple" - releasing this key releases the grapple hook (which retracts into the launcher) and gives you freefall rather quickly; then you can do some proper ninja-roping.

Swift Viper · Post by **Swift Viper** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:07 pm

Knives wrote:I like the grapple just fine, except for one thing. I only use the one key, for the same space reason, and after grappling one has to hit the key again to stop mid way, then again to let go.
Is it possible to have a one press release? Most of my manuvers consist of me using the grapple to hook on something above, grappling halfway or more to the object, then letting go and having my momentum carry me to my destination. The problem I have with the current hook, is that I have to stop before I can let go, hence no momentum and no destination.
It's just a personal preferance.

Like he said, I want to be able to keep my momentum after letting go, so I can truely swing around. If that was done, it truely would be the best grapple hook ever (unless there are people who don't like offhand grapple hooks), that is the only real problem I see with the hook.

BTW, in order to do both with one key bind, do I put a | in bewteen both commands? As of now I change bewteen them back and forth in the controls painfully.

Edit: Same with what DJPaul2, I think I just repeated the same thing

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