A COMPLETE RPG using an Assault/Invasion/DOC Hybrid!

All about Chaos for Unreal... (UT3, UT2004, UT2003, UT)
Captain_Brian
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Post by Captain_Brian »

LordHoban wrote:Don't forget Arcanum, or the Balder's Gate games, RPGs with extensive multiplayer capability. Vampire the Masquerade was said, once it was fully patched up, to provide choice roleplaying capabilities.

I don't know, just adding some examples of CRPGs that came closer to the role playing ideal than others in the multiplayer arena.
I never played Arcanum, but Baldur's Gate's multiplayer was just "tacked on" and the only one who had a ropleplaying experience was the host. The other players couldn't talk to any NPC's and their only input was fighting ala Diablo.

Never played Vampire the Masquerade either, I don't really like all of that vampire stuff. :)


-Brian
Shadowstar
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Post by Shadowstar »

The best RPG experience I've ever had in a computer game was with the Starscape series. This was a series of gamemastered 4x/RPG hybrid games which I created. Originally, it was a mod for the game Stars!, and featured game-relevant features that were created by roleplaying. This is now running as a mod for Space Empires IV. Although these games are 4x empire building sims, thier turn-based style allows for a high RPG potential, and with a gamemaster to oversee it, it ends up being very close to the original, "true" style of RPG that hasn't really been seen in success since the old tabletop days.

This is something that I run in my spare time. Unfortunately, several sacrifices were made in making the mod that made it much less supportive of single-player mode and AI's don't handle it very well, but in the official multiplayer games, it works beautifully. The current game is full, but we do accept "observers", and a new game will begin later this year. Also, observers are first to be considered if replacement players are ever needed.

Check it out at:
http://www.inficad.com/~shadowstar/starscape.htm

EDIT: After thinking about this for a moment, I'm starting to get an idea. I wonder if it would be possible to code a gametype to somehow involve an actual human gamemaster? Think of the possibilities! Gamemastered FPS games! More than just a simple server admin, the gamemaster would have a GUI that would allow him to affect the game world in specific ways. Drag-n-drop monsters, items, and objects, ability to "inhabit" a pawn and interact with players... Hmmmmmm....
LordHoban
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Post by LordHoban »

Actually, that was the intended system for multiplayer Vampire, but it was 3rd person, and I haven't actually tried multiplayer to see how close it came to that, but the general idea was in that vein.

Brian, I don't remember full well for BG1, but I know in Balder's Gate 2 each of the players can open up dialogue with various NPCs, even if they have to resolve them one at a time. You can also roleplay amongst the group.
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Captain_Brian
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Post by Captain_Brian »

LordHoban wrote: Brian, I don't remember full well for BG1, but I know in Balder's Gate 2 each of the players can open up dialogue with various NPCs, even if they have to resolve them one at a time. You can also roleplay amongst the group.
Even so, the Baldur's Gate series, while very good, was just too constrictive for multiplayer gameplay. A singleplayer plot like those just isn't sufficent for multiple players, and roleplaying doesn't cut it if you can't have the game world support it.

I played Neverwinter Nights with a group of friends and we had been looking forward to it for about a year before it came out, and when it did we were all let down pretty hard by it. It seemed more like another sequel in the BG series, rather than the gameplay, non-linearity, and flexibility of Pen and Paper D&D. The official campaign was predictable, boring, and did not lend itself to roleplaying at all. The game engine was too confining, and even though in 3D it was the same as the BG games' in terms of gameplay. Not to mention that while they included an incredibly user-friendly toolset, they included no additional unique content that mod makers could use to make landscape different than what the main campaign offered.


This isn't to say that NWN hasn't grown beyond that due to it's dedicated modding community, but it still has the constrictions of the game's engine. To me, an experience far closer to PnP D&D would be Morrowind. After playing that, I can't see myself playing an RPG that isn't first person, non-linear, and HUGE. Now I know that the actual main plot of the game is supposed to be pretty linear, but actually after playing the game for TWO YEARS I can say that I STILL have NEVER played the main storlyine. Yes that's right, I've been playing an RPG for two years, and yet I haven't yet explored the game's main storyline. To me, that is awesome and describes perfectly the flexability of PnP and what future RPGs should aspire for. I just hope someone puts it into a multiplayer package some day. :(


-Brian
Captain_Brian
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Post by Captain_Brian »

Shadowstar wrote: EDIT: After thinking about this for a moment, I'm starting to get an idea. I wonder if it would be possible to code a gametype to somehow involve an actual human gamemaster? Think of the possibilities! Gamemastered FPS games! More than just a simple server admin, the gamemaster would have a GUI that would allow him to affect the game world in specific ways. Drag-n-drop monsters, items, and objects, ability to "inhabit" a pawn and interact with players... Hmmmmmm....
Hmmmm! He could even spawn into an avatar and roleplay as the leader of an orc tribe attacking the player, or the skeleton king, etc...


Oooooh! I like this idea!!!



Also, about the "Stars!" stuff. I never played "Stars!" but I was a die hard Master of Orion I&II player. Boy did MOOIII suck thogh. Don't see how a team of crap-throwing monkeys could have done worse on that game. :( Same goes for X-Com: Enforcer. Hasbro and Infogrames (Atari now.) should burn in hell for butchering the X-Com series and Microprose. :evil:

-Brian
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Post by |GoD|Plaguelord|LDR| »

jeditobe1 wrote:Eesh, i already get my fair helping of RPGs from Everquest alone :/

UT is my escape from that, action action action!!
I get my daily helping of RPGs from Morrowind and FFX2 so yes I believe UT should be kept as an action game... noting is more action packed that running away from Rockets and Cutter blades and blasting people away with Railguns and Shock combos :twisted:
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LordHoban
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Post by LordHoban »

I don't know, but I wasn't all that satisfied when I tried out Morrowind. Unless it is tabletop, I just don't get into fantasy based RPGs. Well, at least not straight fantasy. A little mix, like Arcanum, works quite well.

I've not played the latest Final Fantasy. I don't know if it shares the 'console-style' fighting that most console based RPGs have, but that is (the fighting systems employed), even if I had a console, what really drives me away from Console based RPGs. There have been a few noted exceptions, though I played them despite their fighting system failings.
These days, life may be slow, but at least I've got my movie in Post Production.

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LoQtUS
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Post by LoQtUS »

I can tell you that it is verry unlikely that Chaos will put out an RPG type Game.
The Dark Side of Chaos.
TKATK
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Post by TKATK »

The best offline RPG=Baldurs gate 2 tie with Plancescape:Torment and Fallout 2

The best Online RPG=Neverwinter,but its still a POS
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Post by ChaosJester »

If a gamemaster idea is implemented you could use spectators to throw monsters in- have 1 or 2 who follow players adding monsters from the approved list for the match, up to the wave limit and if they try to go beyond that it takes the first request to reach the server + adds more based on the random monsters of the normal invasion type played whenever needed if no request is recieved. Action with a gamemastered RPGish feel that works in groups of many sizes so one person does not have to deal with everyone at once, plussallows spectators to have some fun. Don't exactly know if it can be coded, but perhaps a way to please people who otherwise would not be pleased with a RPGish FPS but if you want one, look at the DEUS EX series.
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TKATK
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Post by TKATK »

the gm stuff could be implemented by making the host a spectrator,and give him a console like spawn skarrj,when you press it it does the same command as if you summon im in a console
Shadowstar
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Post by Shadowstar »

Actually, for such a thing to work, you would need a heck of a lot more than a few interface keys for the host to spawn monsters. It could possibly be done in UT2k4, but nothing short of a total conversion would really be able to do justice to the idea.
pgibbs
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Post by pgibbs »

Captain_Brian wrote:
LordHoban wrote: Brian, I don't remember full well for BG1, but I know in Balder's Gate 2 each of the players can open up dialogue with various NPCs, even if they have to resolve them one at a time. You can also roleplay amongst the group.
Even so, the Baldur's Gate series, while very good, was just too constrictive for multiplayer gameplay. A singleplayer plot like those just isn't sufficent for multiple players, and roleplaying doesn't cut it if you can't have the game world support it.
Having just played through BG1, TOTSC, BG2 and TOB (full metal jacket, w00t) and currently persuading Mellisan to JUST DIE WILL YOU!!?!, you could - of course - talk if you weren't on the server machine in BG1 - however, conversations invoked by any player would take priority and force all other clients to watch them. Same thing for going into any shops.
Baldur's Gate 2 changed this, of course. Inso far as too constrictive for multiplayer, I can only say that my brother and me have enjoyed it multiple times. Like for you, I was severely disappointed by NWN's "core campaign" (or whatever it should be referred to).


To everyone, i'm working on a "mod" that should allow development of (proper) RPGs easily - e.g. they'd only have to make the content, and not all the systems that make an RPG a RPG. I'm busy so it won't be done for a while (want to help? :)), but when it is i'll (if I remember) post here.
LordHoban
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Post by LordHoban »

Not sure how I could help beyond the creative front, but who knows? Let me know what you need, PM me.
These days, life may be slow, but at least I've got my movie in Post Production.

-Live action comicbook fantasy/adventure
-http://walkerafterdark.8k.com
Shadowstar
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Post by Shadowstar »

Hoban, if you do end up working on that project, keep me updated. I'm curious to see what comes of it.
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