Grappling Mut Possible?

All about Chaos for Unreal... (UT3, UT2004, UT2003, UT)
chaoskirina
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:05 am
Location: the milky way

Post by chaoskirina »

Pepito wrote:
chaoskirina wrote: if it is false, then you and the monsters use CUT weps.
you mean like a botmatch. . .
I thought you would say that! and actually, yes. another Idea i had just now is that the MONSTERS have the cut weapons and the PLAYERS only have melee. TRY TO SURVIVE THAT, HARDCORE PUNKS! (jumpy) (glob) (zap) (redeemer)

Oh, and I like emoticon wars. So what if I do?
Image
Alphasim
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Akron, OH
Contact:

Clearing the air

Post by Alphasim »

Okay; just to make sure everything is absolutely clear -

The idea of putting the grapple on/off and flag drop options (among others) on the mut menu seems to have at least a minor following. This would enable the mod to be played better with just the mutator so not to have to boot the Chaos UT 2 version of UT2k4 each time, enabling more versitility. Also - and this is just off the wall but heck - it'd be sweet to also have ball drop w/ grapple on/off switch, perhaps the same switch as the flag drop (just a general no drop option). Is this a viable option, or is there no chance of seeing this in the future? The mut option screen could theoretically be modded to accommodate the addition of new options and still maintain a single-screen state (abbreviations or shortened names, less graphics, etc.). Of course this comes from one who has no experience in such a field, so I don't know the extent of work that such a change would require.
LoQtUS
Posts: 2710
Joined: Mon May 06, 2002 6:30 pm
Location: Orlando FL
Contact:

Post by LoQtUS »

Anything is possable, but the question boils down to this simply.

Is ChaosUT a Mod or a Mutator?

If ChaosUT is a mod, then it would make no sence to put a gametype option on a mutator menu.

If ChaosUT is a mutator then ofcourse it would make total sence to put it on the mutator menu.

Personaly i would like to think that ChaosUT is a mod. Ofcourse we are not a total conversion because we do not replace all of the game. We also use a mutator as a base for our Mod. This confuses people alot. Hell, I think it even confused Epic.

I realize that people want to use our weapons and gadgits with what ever they want, But you have to ask yourself. Does the way the Developer intended for the material to be played matter? What respect do you give the developer. There is a trend in the unreal community that believes the developers intentions, and the respect for the developers matters not at all. Take for instance these worm programs that rip out what ever weapon you want out of what ever mod you want. Did the thought ever cross theese peoples minds that there is alot of work that goes into balancing a weapon set so one weapon is not totaly dominant. Then, If you rip out one weapon and put it with weapons from another mod there is no balance. Just think, One Claw2 with a full load or proxys and firemines and you could own a RO game, and thats not even close to one of our most powerful weapons.

Anyway, Im rambeling....
The Dark Side of Chaos.
TKATK
the magical link fairy
Posts: 2184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:16 am

Post by TKATK »

But on the - side,some weapons might make the weapon set completely unplayable for a time,i remember a screen Flagg took of the MUG...100-12 fps in just a quick burst of mug(i tried it and after holding the fire button on the mug MY fps reached 5)

right now,i just cant play with full weps as it doesnt matter if its botmatch or online,someone will always use the mug(well,atleast on 98% of the maps)
Alphasim
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Akron, OH
Contact:

Post by Alphasim »

Your point is interesting, but if it's a mod - and for the most part just that - then why bother releasing the mutator version? This is a quote from the info manual on the site.
Chaos has been designed (intentionaly, and with great effort) to be as flexible and as compatible as was reasonably possible, with anything and everything available for UT2004. This is also why we have provided a mutator version of our mod. Simply so that Chaos can be played and enjoyed in ALL standard UT2004 game types, in addition to most custom game types, and even when combined with many other mods or mutators
There is no intent to harm a developers hard work with a worm program, but rather to allow gamers to mix and match their favorite mods together without trying to have four conflicting mods or muts running at once. If someone wants to ruin their own experience, that which has been finely tuned by the development team, then it's not a burn on the team nor is it the teams fault that they'd rather not use all of the weapons. I personally find the weapons highly frustrating in execution, and that they occasionally render the matches somewhat unplayable for me (a slow-reflexed player).

Perhaps, and this is a totally random concept, but maybe the mutator and mod should attempt different goals. The hook, relics, spraypaint, etc on the mutator and the gameplay, weapons, and items in the mod. In this light the mutator and mod would be used in unison for the complete experience. The biggest flaw here being that it would require an absolute tear-down and reconstruction project that seems at this stage in the game to be excessive.
LoQtUS
Posts: 2710
Joined: Mon May 06, 2002 6:30 pm
Location: Orlando FL
Contact:

Post by LoQtUS »

Yea, the emitters on the MUG are borked. They have way to much going on and need to be redone yet again. heh. I know, why cant we get them right the first time? I wish i could tell you why, but i dont have an answer for that yet.
The Dark Side of Chaos.
R.Flagg
Chaotic Dreams Team
Posts: 8460
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 2:55 pm

Post by R.Flagg »

Chaos has been designed (intentionaly, and with great effort) to be as flexible and as compatible as was reasonably possible, with anything and everything available for UT2004. This is also why we have provided a mutator version of our mod. Simply so that Chaos can be played and enjoyed in ALL standard UT2004 game types, in addition to most custom game types, and even when combined with many other mods or mutators
Hi. I wrote that bit from the manual, and I meant what I wrote. Chaos is in fact one of the most compatible and versatile mod/muts you will ever find. And always has been. But the "as was reasonably possible" bit was important too. It covers many topics.

For one example - I think (hope) we as a mod team in general have learned that "more versatility" is not necessarily a good thing. And btw, I even read an interview with Cliff B. once in which he essentially said the same thing about UT2004 (too many muts and game types and whatnot). But beyond that, let's look at one of your requests, just for chat.

In earlier days of Chaos, it used to be set up so that you could run the Chaos mutator in CTF, and choose to allow grappling while carrying the flag. Now, despite the fact that I actually enjoy that style of play very much, not once did I find a server running that option. Not once. Nor do I even recall anyone besides myself requesting that option on a server.

So for that - and other reasons - we simply followed the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) logic, and made dropping the flag/ball the default option when using our mut in CTF and BR, and removed the option for it from the mutator GUI. Nobody outside of myself and maybe a few other hard-core grapple-monkeys seemed to be interested anyway.

To be honest, I'm just glad that the option to carry the flag while grappling is still in the mod at all. My cohorts could easily argue that it's unpopularity makes it not worthy. I myself however, am ever hopeful that someday some folks will enjoy it as I do. (I mean come on .... carrying the flag while hanging from a Raptor with your grapping hook .... :P , sounds like fun to me)

And since bots can't use the grapple, at least at this time, the option is hardly needed (or balanced or fair, or even fun IMO) for offline play.

Anyway, we could go on and on, and possibly never agree. And it's also true that these topics, in one form or another, have been covered many times here. If you get bored one day read back thru some old threads and you'll see more and more discussion on why we are where we are today.

If you wanna chat more about it in IRC someday, I'd be happy too.

And yes, of course I can't argue with TKATK's point about the MUG (and it's not alone), and why you'd want to avoid that for FPS reasons, but ideally we'll get that corrected and that won't be an issue any more.
Last edited by R.Flagg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lord_kungai
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:41 am
Location: Mumbai, India

Post by lord_kungai »

R.Flagg wrote:In earlier days of Chaos, it used to be set up so that you could run the Chaos mutator in CTF, and choose to allow grappling while carrying the flag. Now, despite the fact that I actually enjoy that style of play very much, not once did I find a server running that option. Not once. Nor do I even recall anyone besides myself requesting that option on a server.

So we simply followed the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) logic, and made dropping the flag/ball the default option when using our mut in CTF and BR, and removed the GUI for it. Nobody outside of myself and maybe a few other hard-core grapple-monkeys seemed to be interested anyway.

To be honest, I'm just glad that the option to carry the flag while grappling is still in the mod at all. My cohorts could easily argue that it's unpopularity makes it not worthy. I myself however, am ever hopeful that someday some folks will enjoy it as I do. (I mean come on .... carrying the flag while hanging from a Raptor with your grapping hook .... :P , sounds like fun to me)

And since bots can't use the grapple, at least at this time, the option is hardly needed (or balanced or fair, or even fun IMO) for offline play.
I like grappling while holding the flag...

Can a player really hang off a raptor for very long? I never can...

CUT is very versatile/compatible. About this issue of 'mini muts'... can the 'CUT weps arena' and/or even the normal 'arena' mut be modified to allow the acess to/global spawning of more than one wep? EG: only ST, CUTSR, LG and melee?
<center><a href="http://home.att.net/~slugbutter/evil/" target="new"><img src="http://home.att.net/~slugbutter/evil/pureevil.jpg" border=0></a></center>
chaoskirina
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:05 am
Location: the milky way

Post by chaoskirina »

lord_kungai wrote: I like grappling while holding the flag...
Can a player really hang off a raptor for very long? I never can...
I always thought the new grapple was a bit weak. I mean, I just think it had a much shorter holding and reaching range since CUT2K4 came out. I, too, enjoy the simple pleasure of hanging from a raptor. but i cannot enjoy that since it is a BIT short! I mean, people will most likely lose a lot of range on the grapple due to the speed a raptor is traveling at. and have you guys applied the Ninja Rope Launcher rope physics to the grapple yet? it still looks a bit wierd traveling through a wall...
Image
Gen_Identikal
Chaotic Dreams Team
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:06 am
Location: 7fgh

Re: Grappling Mut Possible?

Post by Gen_Identikal »

Never wrote:Hey there,

Well, I'm kinda new here; so maybe someone already asked this (but I didnt see it on the first page anyways); and if that's the case, my sincere apologies. :)

Anyways, what I want is to install simply the grappling hook feature on my server. I really like ChaosUT, love it actually, ever since the old ut99 chaos. Nonetheless, as an admin and clan leader, I cannot go changing my clan server to a chaos server (we're a zark clan); however, if there were a simple grappling hook mut, than I could at least have it as an option on my server. So, do yall have a stripped down chaos mod? Like just the grappling hook? I cannot ask all my many guests to dl and install Chaos, but a small mut is np; know what I mean?

So, is there a grappling hook mut, that can function seperately (and without) the rest of ChaosUT? If so, where is it? I hope so, cause I'm dying to swing around like tarzan again; matrix moves just seems like a kinda cheep movement mod next to grappling hooks...

Thank you for you time Chaos & co.
you could always check out the Ninja Rope mutator by Jeff Wofford- the graphics might be a tad shabby though, but the physics are superb!
http://www.jeffwofford.com/ninjarope.html
Image
Post Reply