UT3 rated M?

[GB]

Tbh, i cant make my mind up about UT3 full stop.

At first, it was amazing, but after the "OMG Teh grafix!" phase died out, i cant decide if its actually much of an improvement over ut2k4 or not...

The loss of taunts is just one factor...*sighs*

[deadxatthexscene]

I'm kind of the same way. The campaign sucked for sure, and I will tell you I actually enjoyed the UT99 campaign. As far as multiplayer, this patch should fix alot of things because I haven't really touched multiplayer yet... Improvement? I'm not sure either whether to say UT3 is an improvement... Even though I'm still in the "OMGZ pr3TTY" stage.

[Deathstorm]

The PS3 and 360 are not "children's gaming machines".

I think he meant Nintendo they are the kiddy console company.

[Zachariah]

well they are really, compared to the pc. . . that doesnt make them any less good, (though the PC has numerous advantages) but developers are often WAY more restrictive with console games, as the media says that children play them, and therefore parents associate them with their kids, and then a violent shooter has less leeway in terms of media attention.

Parents see a console and think its only a toy, they see a computer and think, hey , I use that thing at work! they can relate with the computer, and for that reason violent games on the PC usually get more of a free-pass (though console games need the free pass too)

[Kaboodles]

well they are really, compared to the pc. . . that doesnt make them any less good, (though the PC has numerous advantages) but developers are often WAY more restrictive with console games, as the media says that children play them, and therefore parents associate them with their kids, and then a violent shooter has less leeway in terms of media attention.

Parents see a console and think its only a toy, they see a computer and think, hey , I use that thing at work! they can relate with the computer, and for that reason violent games on the PC usually get more of a free-pass (though console games need the free pass too)

About the only restriction console games have with regards to "mature" content is the fact that the Big 3 won't license any game rated Adults only for their consoles. M is the limit, but really, who makes AO rated games anymore? A search of the ESRB's website shows only 23 games have been given that rating, and most of them are pointless porno games, so you're not missing much. One of them was GTA: SA, but that was just from the huge overreaction to that "Hot Coffee" thing.

Still, the consoles have their GTAs where you can regain health by inviting hookers to your car and toss profanity left and right, and God of War has a sex minigame in it (with visible boobies!). And sex in media is a lot more taboo here in America than violence will ever be. The opposite seems to be true in Europe and other places.

There's also that pointless "Guy Game" for PS2 that was some trivia game where you see pictures of topless women for getting answers right (which if I recall correctly got in trouble when one of the girls was found to be under-aged, apparently. ).


And there are advantages to console development in that there are fewer hardware configurations to worry about, and you don't have to worry about scaling it so that it works for weaker or stronger hardware. Unless you go multi-platform, but then that's only two or three different (though drastically different) hardware configurations.

EDIT: And no, Nintendo isn't a "kiddy" company. They don't make games just for kids. They make games that everyone can enjoy, except those that think the games are kiddy and thus for kids only. I tend to think of those people as immature.

[Zachariah]

nintendo IS though a Kiddy game. the games are almost always on a cartoon level as far as story-development and character design. this bugs me, because I can't really get anything meaningful out of the experience in those cases, except for the instant gratification of the actual experience of playing it. In contrast, the ps2 and 360 killer apps like dead rising and metal gear solid3, those have strong storylines and character development that grips you and gives you a much deeper enjoyment of the title. I'm not saying Nintnedo can't do character development on a meaningful scale, they proved that with the awesome storyline/characters in Zelda last year. I'm saying that they've realized that KIDS dont care about that, and in accordance, most of their games are geared in that direction. I own a 360 AND a wii, and more titles for the wii than the 360, so dont think I'm a fanboy. I Love playing super mario galaxy, but the super-saccharine story and marios godawfully high pitched voice are major turn-offs. Nintendo can do gameplay expertly. but when it comes to storyline they're just all flash and no substance. Before you debate me, remember,mario and link have been doing the same exact thing for 20 years now.

[GB]

I have to admit, im quite glad nintendo are doing the emulator thing.

Playing sonic3, streets of rage, golden axe etc, has really hit it home to me that i actually cant stand where games are going - they all need 3000 hours to complete, you play them once, and then you never replay. Its all toss. Its like all substance has been lost to flashy graphics and stupidly complex/dull stories (or none...).

Half life was a fantastic game, but i blame it for this current trend in people assuming that a story is the all emcompassing part of a game (in terms of FPS) - tbh, my favourite games of all time are: doom and UT. No pointless story - they are repetative, and immensely satisfying.

You can choose to play them for 10 minutes if you like, or all day. I wish they would make games a bit less complicated now and again. Hell, its hardly like quake had a complex story, but it didnt stop people playing it for hours.

Oh my, i feel like an old man now...

[Kaboodles]

nintendo IS though a Kiddy game. the games are almost always on a cartoon level as far as story-development and character design. this bugs me, because I can't really get anything meaningful out of the experience in those cases, except for the instant gratification of the actual experience of playing it. In contrast, the ps2 and 360 killer apps like dead rising and metal gear solid3, those have strong storylines and character development that grips you and gives you a much deeper enjoyment of the title. I'm not saying Nintnedo can't do character development on a meaningful scale, they proved that with the awesome storyline/characters in Zelda last year. I'm saying that they've realized that KIDS dont care about that, and in accordance, most of their games are geared in that direction. I own a 360 AND a wii, and more titles for the wii than the 360, so dont think I'm a fanboy. I Love playing super mario galaxy, but the super-saccharine story and marios godawfully high pitched voice are major turn-offs. Nintendo can do gameplay expertly. but when it comes to storyline they're just all flash and no substance. Before you debate me, remember,mario and link have been doing the same exact thing for 20 years now.

Just because a game's graphics are cartoony doesn't mean it's a "kiddy" game. You should know this. And what do you mean by "cartoony" story development?

Story is a non-issue with Mario, as that is not the focus. The focus is pure platform gaming, which it excels at, I think. This is probably applicable to most of Nintendo's IPs. Zelda's storylines (though I've never finished a Zelda game) all seem to end in fighting Ganon somehow, but there are a lot of interesting things in between.

There's also the Metroid series, which are not at all cartoony, and have interesting storylines that aren't immediately thrown in your face that you must piece together through log entries.

And yes, Nintendo characters have basically no character development at all, but really, do they really need it?

I think you're focusing way too much on what the games don't have (big, epic, original storylines and "mature" themes) and not on what they do have (lots of fun, polish, etc.).

[Zachariah]

Kaboodles. I said that I enjoy nintendo titles, and I own all the major first party releases. But when I say they're cartoony, I mean it in the maturity/depth sense, not the graphics. Metroid is one of the few exceptions, But a videogame is something that the makers often spend years developing and the gamers themselves can invest 10-20-30 hours plus playing. To say that you're going to sink that much time into something that doesnt even interest you on a level beyond audio/visual/motor stimulation is kind of shallow. To say that the lack of any emotional investment is a small thing is ridiculous. story is the difference between super mario and shadow of the collossus, the difference between fighting a boss because he's there, and fighting a boss because you feel like its the right thing to do. Being emotionally invested in the characters makes it a rich and engrossing experience, instead of a popcorn diversion. and even metroid, as probably the most story centric chunk of the nintendo powerhouse, is still completely lacking when it comes to compelling characters (beyond the simple, HEY SAMUS IS COOL). Nintendo has shown that at least the zelda team is still trying, But it seems like everyone else is just "showing up". and even the zelda storyline is miles away from the kind of emotional and gripping attatchment that you see in many other titles. that being said, this industry isnt known for its storytelling, but that does not mean that it cannot tell stories. shadow of the collossus had me in tears, at the end. Mario just had me scratching my butt and wondering what to do next.

[Kaboodles]

Hey, I never accused you of not enjoying Nintendo products.

I think I have a lower threshold for emotional involvement than you do as far as video games are concerned. During my playthroughs for both Deus Ex and its less stellar sequel, I always went for a non-lethal takedown reloaded a save whenever someone dies (including enemies). Unless of course, it's literally impossible for me not to kill someone. Then I mow them down with great vengeance and gib the bodies for good measure. Sometimes I take it to the extreme, and haul unconscious bodies out of dangerous areas so that they don't accidentally get killed.

This was the same for losing wingmen in Freespace, losing scientists and Barneys in Half-Life, and freedom fighters in the sequel (except in impossible situations of course).

I think the big difference between us is that I seem to play games to beat them, while you play to see/experience them. Sure, I probably would probably have felt sad at the end of SotC, had I ever played it and seen the ending before it was spoiled to me, but I don't need that.

And who says emotional investment depends on how "deep" the storyline or how multi-dimensional the characters are in a game. As as long as I am playing it and am experiencing some emotion from the game that makes me want to continue (Fear? Anger? Elation? Anxiety? Pure adrenaline? Sure, as long as I enjoy it) . Do you really think a game inferior it only interests you in the audio/visual/motor level? I've logged hundreds (thousands?) of hours into UT2004 and its mods alone, and there's certainly no deep story or engaging characters to be found there (although your human opponents can be rather interesting). The hunt, the chase, the thrill of the kill, pride in victory, and shame in utter defeat. And hey, sometimes it's just fun to dick around with some people you semi-know online. That's my emotional investment right there. Do you think me a shallow person?

Getting back to the topic of Nintendo:

Should I not feel any emotion while viewing the beautiful landscapes (spacescapes?) of Super Mario Galaxies? The size of the ocean and freedom of sailing in Wind Waker? (which is all I did for the first several hours of play) Would you consider any emotion you feel while blasting through an old Mario game just for fun somehow less legitimate than if you were playing through a more story-oriented game for the first time?

What do you think of puzzle games like Tetris?

[lord_kungai]

OMG Tetris is definitely M rated, man. They have BRICKS plugging into OTHER BRICKS!!! OF DIFFERENT COLOURS!!! The SEXUAL UNDERTONES! The HINTS AT SLAVERY AND RACISM! The sheer DISGUSTINGNESS OF THE SITUATION!

:p


Seriously, though, UT3 got an M because Malcolm used the F-word. That's it. That's what tipped the scales.

[Deathstorm]

OMG Tetris is definitely M rated, man. They have BRICKS plugging into OTHER BRICKS!!! OF DIFFERENT COLOURS!!! The SEXUAL UNDERTONES! The HINTS AT SLAVERY AND RACISM! The sheer DISGUSTINGNESS OF THE SITUATION!

:p


Seriously, though, UT3 got an M because Malcolm used the F-word. That's it. That's what tipped the scales.

OMG you are nuts.